Ice Bullets
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fletcher
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They got it right that the bullets won't work, but for the wrong reasons.
Phil DeGraves
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Well, I did hear of a story once where a husband was found bludgeoned to death. The wife was cooking a frozen leg of lamb when the police arrived and since her husband was dead she complained that now no one would eat it, so the investigators stayed for supper and ate the murder weapon.
ThomasT
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Phil Degraves, that was an alfred hitchcock show with the cops eating the leg of lamb.
My uncle was a homicide detective on the Ft. Worth police dept. and he said that the lubaloy bullets from winchester were nearly impossible to trace back to the gun that fired them. He stated that these would keep you out of trouble. I've often wondered if that was why winchester stopped selling them. They are still available in .22 loadings.
He also said that in most murders that the gun was never recovered. Most of the murders he worked were solve from either eye witnesses or a confession from the shooter. He also said working robbery was much more dangerous. Robbers don't want to be caught and murderers killed the person they were mad at and weren't as likely to resist arrest.
My uncle was a homicide detective on the Ft. Worth police dept. and he said that the lubaloy bullets from winchester were nearly impossible to trace back to the gun that fired them. He stated that these would keep you out of trouble. I've often wondered if that was why winchester stopped selling them. They are still available in .22 loadings.
He also said that in most murders that the gun was never recovered. Most of the murders he worked were solve from either eye witnesses or a confession from the shooter. He also said working robbery was much more dangerous. Robbers don't want to be caught and murderers killed the person they were mad at and weren't as likely to resist arrest.
Phil DeGraves
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"He also said working robbery was much more dangerous. Robbers don't want to be caught and murderers killed the person they were mad at and weren't as likely to resist arrest."
I've heard that same thing. Most of the time itis a close acquaintance or family member and the act is committed in the heat of the moment. Then they feel bad about it later when they sober up.
I've heard that same thing. Most of the time itis a close acquaintance or family member and the act is committed in the heat of the moment. Then they feel bad about it later when they sober up.
One of Many
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The Mythbusters show indicated that Ice Bullets shot from a Firearm were ineffective; that was because the heat of combustion of the propellant melted the projectile. They did not think to use an Air Rifle as the delivery mechanism, or a spring loaded projector; neither of these would cause the Ice Bullet to melt, so it is still plausible for someone to evade detection by using an Ice Bullet.
The acceleration of the projectile could be controlled to avoid premature fragmentation during discharge, and the velocity kept to a low value so that the projectile acts more like a stabbing instrument than an impact instrument. The shape of the projectile could be configured to stabilize the flight, by increasing drag at the rear, or by placing the weight forward in the projectile to prevent tumbling during flight. As long as the projectile has a penetrating point at the forward end, it could cause a massive blood loss as it penetrates the body of the victim.
The previously mentioned "tater gun" would serve as an easily disguised projector, and it could be disassembled quickly and discarded piece by piece in different locations on an escape route, without drawing much attention. A tank of propane from a barbecue grill would be innocuous, as would a bunch of pieces of PVC plumbing and the glue needed to assemble the projector. The igniter would be the most difficult component to make and to disguise, unless a simple flash hole and cigarette lighter were used to initiate the discharge. The most difficult aspect would be molding the projectile, and keeping it frozen until the time it is shot from the projector.
The acceleration of the projectile could be controlled to avoid premature fragmentation during discharge, and the velocity kept to a low value so that the projectile acts more like a stabbing instrument than an impact instrument. The shape of the projectile could be configured to stabilize the flight, by increasing drag at the rear, or by placing the weight forward in the projectile to prevent tumbling during flight. As long as the projectile has a penetrating point at the forward end, it could cause a massive blood loss as it penetrates the body of the victim.
The previously mentioned "tater gun" would serve as an easily disguised projector, and it could be disassembled quickly and discarded piece by piece in different locations on an escape route, without drawing much attention. A tank of propane from a barbecue grill would be innocuous, as would a bunch of pieces of PVC plumbing and the glue needed to assemble the projector. The igniter would be the most difficult component to make and to disguise, unless a simple flash hole and cigarette lighter were used to initiate the discharge. The most difficult aspect would be molding the projectile, and keeping it frozen until the time it is shot from the projector.
Phil DeGraves
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I don't think a spring loaded launcher could deploy an ice bullet at high enough velocity or stability to cause a fatal wound. Ice doesn't have very good sectional density even if the ballistic co-efficient is good. Now a high powered air gun, that might be worth looking into.
mgregg85
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they did the same paper patch trick in the movie Shooter.
ThomasT
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M67, the sawdust would have to be from an ash tree. I think that would work fine. I guess you could put a silver core in it and and would do double duty for werewolves.
thisguy1157
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Come on guys, you know better than this, the diameter of an unfired bullet is greater than the inner diameter of the rifling, and ice being a crystal doesnt take well to compression. Its shattered a fraction of an inch into the barrel. Then the fragments are easy pickings for the heat. Now if you could get the ice to survive the compression and combustion, it still hasn't the mass to do much of anything, or looking at a what 5gr projectile?? If you wanted to shoot w/o leaving ballistic evidence its easy, choose the right materials. It has to be heavy, compressable, and not traceable. Easy. Mercury, heavier than lead, its metallic so it will engage the rifling and get the proper spin, and will melt away and settle to the lowest part of the body. Easy enough.
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ha ha ha ice bullet!
lets take away the whole firing it from a gun and just somehow have a magically flying high speed bullet.
First off, ice is 1/10th the density of lead, so this means much more surface area exposed to air, hence you are going to bleed velocity like crazy.
Second, as ice is so much lighter, even fired on the moon where there is no air to slow down the bullet, it is so light that it will have to go MUCH MUCH faster than a lead bullet to deliver an equal energy load to the target.
Ice, even Pykrete which is much stronger, is still not nearly as strong as lead, and we all know that varmint bullets need to be carefully constructed so that they don't fragment when flying at velocities in teh 3500 fps range. So if ice/pykrete has to go say 10,000 fps to have equal energy of a same sized 223 projectile, I just don't see it holding together. Even if it does, it won't be going 10,000 for long, it will drop velocity extremely quicky.
As mythbusters pointed out, using a large caliber handgun very very close would work...but so would stabbing someone with an icecycle.
The other option is to have a much much MUCH large than average ice bullet, this will allow it to have much lower speeds due to it's great weight. Also, with a 3 dimensional shape, ratio of surface area to volume decreases as size increases. Take a 1cm on each side cube, volume = 1cc, surface area = 6cm. 1cc volume = 1gram weight Each gram has 6cm squared exposed surface
Take a 100cm on each side cube, volume =1,000,000cc surface area = 60,000 each gram now has .06 cm squared exposed surface.
Hence the other option would be to get a 'bullet' the size of a large cantelope, this would allow sufficient mass at low velocity to do serious damage, as well as sufficient weight/surface area to retain it's original velocity for some period of time.
ladies and gentlemen, I suggest the ICE TREBUCHET! if you miss with that, run up and stab them with the icecycle. Remember, if you suck on the tip for a few seconds it can get very sharp.
lets take away the whole firing it from a gun and just somehow have a magically flying high speed bullet.
First off, ice is 1/10th the density of lead, so this means much more surface area exposed to air, hence you are going to bleed velocity like crazy.
Second, as ice is so much lighter, even fired on the moon where there is no air to slow down the bullet, it is so light that it will have to go MUCH MUCH faster than a lead bullet to deliver an equal energy load to the target.
Ice, even Pykrete which is much stronger, is still not nearly as strong as lead, and we all know that varmint bullets need to be carefully constructed so that they don't fragment when flying at velocities in teh 3500 fps range. So if ice/pykrete has to go say 10,000 fps to have equal energy of a same sized 223 projectile, I just don't see it holding together. Even if it does, it won't be going 10,000 for long, it will drop velocity extremely quicky.
As mythbusters pointed out, using a large caliber handgun very very close would work...but so would stabbing someone with an icecycle.
The other option is to have a much much MUCH large than average ice bullet, this will allow it to have much lower speeds due to it's great weight. Also, with a 3 dimensional shape, ratio of surface area to volume decreases as size increases. Take a 1cm on each side cube, volume = 1cc, surface area = 6cm. 1cc volume = 1gram weight Each gram has 6cm squared exposed surface
Take a 100cm on each side cube, volume =1,000,000cc surface area = 60,000 each gram now has .06 cm squared exposed surface.
Hence the other option would be to get a 'bullet' the size of a large cantelope, this would allow sufficient mass at low velocity to do serious damage, as well as sufficient weight/surface area to retain it's original velocity for some period of time.
ladies and gentlemen, I suggest the ICE TREBUCHET! if you miss with that, run up and stab them with the icecycle. Remember, if you suck on the tip for a few seconds it can get very sharp.
besides, why do you have to 'leave no ballistic evidence' even in a JFK level assasination.
There is no uberdatabase of all barrels, even though some states are trying to go for that.
So you buy a brand new rifle, or better yet steal one from some guy's collection. Shoot the target, they find the bullet they still know jack. Sure, if they ever find the gun they can then fire another bullet from that same gun and compare, yup, match...but they have to find the gun first. So throw it in the ocean. And that is of course assuming the rifling has remained unchanged, which is easy enough to do by running a file down it.
So which is easier, leaving NO ballistics data, or leaving ballistics data that means nothing?
Steal the gun, shoot the target, file the barrel, deep sea the gun = much easier than designing uber air rifle ice mercury and sawdust bullet
There is no uberdatabase of all barrels, even though some states are trying to go for that.
So you buy a brand new rifle, or better yet steal one from some guy's collection. Shoot the target, they find the bullet they still know jack. Sure, if they ever find the gun they can then fire another bullet from that same gun and compare, yup, match...but they have to find the gun first. So throw it in the ocean. And that is of course assuming the rifling has remained unchanged, which is easy enough to do by running a file down it.
So which is easier, leaving NO ballistics data, or leaving ballistics data that means nothing?
Steal the gun, shoot the target, file the barrel, deep sea the gun = much easier than designing uber air rifle ice mercury and sawdust bullet
thisguy1157
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I never said it was practical. People asked, I answered.
230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
akodo:
It's the RPM of high-speed bullets, not the velocity per se, which makes them blow up on the way to the target.
A bullet at 3500 fps from a 12" twist rifle will be spinning at 210,000 RPM.
Increase the twist to 10" and the RPM will exceed a quarter of a million RPM.
I think an icicle out of a crossbow is the bet bet.
Or a snowball out of a spud gun.
It's the RPM of high-speed bullets, not the velocity per se, which makes them blow up on the way to the target.
A bullet at 3500 fps from a 12" twist rifle will be spinning at 210,000 RPM.
Increase the twist to 10" and the RPM will exceed a quarter of a million RPM.
I think an icicle out of a crossbow is the bet bet.
Or a snowball out of a spud gun.
MT GUNNY
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