Ideal 1x4 power optics criteria that I've come up with (with your help)

[JWarren]

Did some pondering today.

One of my projects (among many) is finding the best fit for a 1x4 optic to put on my AR-15.

It has occured to me that there is simply NO perfect 1x4 optic out there.

So...


Perhaps it is just a vent, and perhaps there is an off-chance that some reputable manufacturer is listening, I have put together what I would consider the ideal 1x4 optic for an AR-15 platform.

Optics manufacters.... if you are listening, I hope that you realize the HUGE market share that you could get if you listened to this!


So here it goes....


1. 1.1x4 Magnification. I realize that there is really no such thing as TRUE 1X in a variable optic, but I do feel that 1.1 on the low end will do better than 1.25X or 1.50X.

2. Illuminated Recticle. The illuminated recticle should be strong enough that it does to wash out in sunlight, and should have varible settings.

3. Circle Dot or Horseshoe Dot Recticle. It can have crosshairs or mil-dot variation, but should not overcrowd recticle or cover too much of the target at 100 yards.

4. Extended Battery Life. A target on battery life should be 500 hours at medium setting. In fairness, I don't think any of them hit this mark.

5. Elevation and Windage Knobs. These should be finger adjustable with caps OR a rotation lock feature. Exposed non-lockable knobs are problematic in this type of optic.

6. Brightness and Clarity. Optic should be bright and have edge to edge clarity.

7. Durable. Single tube construction, waterproof.

8. Lifetime Warranty. 'Nuff Said.

9. Priced ~$700 or less ideally.

10. Lightweight. Under 14 oz. (thanks Chris Rhines)

11. Wide low-power Field of View: ~90 feet at 100 yards (thanks Chris Rhines)




The above criteria can be found in various optics across the board. However, you just can't seem to find them all in one product.


Right now, I am doing a bit of "research" on the following optics:

Meopta KDot, Millet DMS-1, Leupold CR/T, Burris XTR 1X4, Weaver 1.1x4, Kahles 1.1x4, S&B Short Dot, USO 1x4, Nightforce 1X4 NDX, IOR Valdada 1.1x4. Trijicon Accupoint 1.25x4


Realistically, the S&B Short Dot, the Nightforce 1X4 NDX and US Optics 1x4 are out of my price range on this project.

But I swear-- if I can't find anything worth anything, I may just stick to irons for another year or so and then start taking a look at those.



Any additional criteria I missed or comments are welcome!


-- John

 

[taliv]

you mean 1-4x?
normally the number in front of the x is the power, as in how many times (hence the "x") the image is magnified. and the number after the x is the size of objective lens in mm.

 

[JWarren]

taliv,

yes.... talking about 1 power x 4 power (or 5 in case of Leupold MR/T or 3 in case of Leupold CR/T) optics.


-- John

 

[Chris Rhines]

The only additional criteria I would add would be light weight (under 14oz.,) a BDC reticule suitable for holdover out to 500 yards with common .223 ammunition, and a 1x field of view of at least 90' at 100 yards.

I have a TA11 ACOG, a Burris XTR 1-4x, and lots of time on a Meopta 1-4x22RD, and I like them all. But I'd happily pay $1K+ for a scope with all the above features.

- Chris

 

[JWarren]

Chris,

Can you give us a little info about the Burris XTR 1x4 and the Meopta 10-4x22RD?

I have been looking hard at the Burris and the Meopta. The ~80 hour battery-life of the Meopta KDot has kinda been a turn-off to me.


I agree with you on spending ~$1K on an optic that has all of the above. I'm trying to avoid doing that at this time if I can help it. Right now, my LR-308 is my higher priority on fitting for glass. It will take the lion's share of my optics budget this go around. At the same time, I won't buy junk.


Thanks for the input on weight. I dropped the ball on that one. Same with the FOV. I "sort of" left room for the possiblity of a BDC recticle. Some want it, but some consider it too busy. So I'm leaving that subjective.


Thanks!


-- John

 

[DMK]

Elevation and Windage Knobs. These should be finger adjustable with caps OR a rotation lock feature. Exposed non-lockable knobs are problematic in this type of optic.

What is your reasoning for this feature?

In a close to mid-range optic like you are talking about, I'd give it a BZO, close the caps and forget about it. I wouldn't be fiddling with elevation and windage adjustments when shooting.

A donut reticle along with some kind of graduations to each side, top and bottom would help though as long as it wasn't too busy.

 

[JWarren]

DMK,

I said "finger adjustable" because I frankly think that coin slot adjustable is idiotic. And I am not the only person I routinely see that says that-- even my father says that and he is as "tactical" as french toast.

Sooo... finger adjustable.

I never said caps were a bad idea, however. But I've got capped optics that are still finger adjustable.

I was really addressing the turrents. This type of optic really is harmed by M1 or M3 turrents that have no abilty to prevent them from being knocked off.


BZO isn't really going to work if you get a BDC recticle as Chris Rhines mentioned.


I agree with you on the graduations and with the "Set it and forget it" viewpoint.

-- John

 

[DMK]

I said "finger adjustable" bacause I frankly think that coin slot adjustable is idiotic.

Ah, OK. I went back and re-read what you wrote. I was thinking of something like target turrets.

Yea, finger adjustable under a cap. I've got a few of those too. Nice feature.

 

[JWarren]

DMK,

Yeah, I *could* have been more clear on that point.




I was really addressing one of the places where Zak Smith pointed out that Leupold dropped the ball on thier MR/T.

I REALLY want to like that optic, but I just can't. The knobs are free to get knocked off, and who wants to have to check them every time you drag it out of the back seat of a jeep?

And they really should have made it 1.1-4 instead of 1.5-5.

Its a shame really. I wouldn't be going through this if that were the case.


-- John

 

[Zak Smith]

My ideal low-power variable scope for AR/practical use:

* FFP reticle config

* more or less a copy of the TA11 reticle, with the following changes permissible: other shape instead of donut (although it cannot cover targets in the 125 - 300 yard regime); BDC might make more sense with thinner lines and maybe 1/2-mil hashes, since it is likely "my" load/gun won't match their factory BDC anyway. (As explanation, there is no reason for "random" reticle features to the sides or above the primary zero point. The only reason to have any underneath is for drop compensation.)

* reticle "center" (aka primary zero) point illumination - ability to control from full black up to brain-grabbing super bright illumination. If battery powered, the battery life should be meet or exceed Aimpoint M3 battery life; fiber-optic light source also welcomed.

* reticle illumination on the rest (ie, the BDC) is optional, but should not be connected to the super-bright control (ie, only the reticle "center" should be super bright, nothing else in the reticle)

* eye relief no shorter than 2", no longer than 2.6" (TA11 is 2.4")

* exit pupil no less than 10mm at 3.5x

* physical package no more than 10% larger than a TA11

* ability to accept a LaRue mount (not true on Spectre DR)

* power-switch control (lever or ring) should be relatively fast to actuate. The "zero" must be 100% retained throughout the whole range of movement of the control (not true on the Spectre DR)

* as close to 1x as possible on the low end

* the top end magnification does not matter much, provided it is above 3.5 or 4x. IE, 6x would not be a problem as long as it didn't intrude on the other requirements

* eye relief should not increase as the power is dialed down-- it should "seem" like an Aimpoint on the low end

* the physical package should be slim and minimally block binocular vision (ie, the amount the "tube" blocks)

* capped elevation/windage zero adjustments

 

[JWarren]

Thanks for that write-up Zak. It should help quite a few of us.


-- John

 

[Zak Smith]

And it doesn't exist, yet. The Short Dot is pretty close, but hugely expensive. The Spectre DR comes close, but has several fatal flaws. A compact form factor will be very difficult to realize without a roof prism.

 

[JWarren]

Yep... but hopefully someone is listening.

Someone will be shocked at the market share they could own if they could do the above in a $1K or less package.


-- John

 

[taliv]

what's battery life on a short dot like?

 

[JWarren]

EDIT:


OK... I think I found the answer. According to this Gunbroker auction, the S&B Short Dot has a 100 hour battery life. That is only 20 hours longer than the Meopta KDot.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=100099040

Evolved from the basic Short Dot model, the addition of locking turrets and the CQB reticle results in a highly specialized instrument suitable for high-stress urban and combat situations. Calibration rings are supplied for the M855, 75 gr. TAP and M118LR loads, to cover the popular 5.56 and 7.62 offerings. Locking windage, elevation and illumination turrets insure that the scope's settings will not change even under the most rigorous system.

The reticle is located in the first focal plane, and includes ranging capabilities at higher magnification. At 1.1 power, the skeleton post system virtually disappears for fast, accurate target acquisition. The same highly flexible Flash Dot system as in the standard Short Dot is included.

Dimensions (mm)
A=95
B=70
C=74.2
D=23.3
E=28.4
F=71.8
G=30
H=34
I=67.5
K=43
L=269
M=29.2
Construction
Aluminum tube, 30mm without rail
Hard anodized black surface
Reticle in first focal plane

Optical data
Magnification: 1.1 - 4x
Field of view @ 100m: 10m - 32m
Exit pupil: 14mm - 5.5mm
Eye relief: min 85mm
Light transmission: min 85% day & night
Diopter setting: +2 to -3

Elevation adjustment
Elevation increments: 1/2 MOA per click
Elevation range: 26 MOA
Different click rings with bullet drop compensation and different elevation increments available on request.

Windage adjustment
Windage increments: 1/2 MOA per click
Windage range: ±13 MOA
Click rings with different windage increments available on request.
General data
Parallax free at 100 meters

Reticle illumination:
Settings 1-3: Very low intensity for use with night vision devices
Settings 4-6: Moderate intensity for low light conditions (dawn, dusk)
Settings 7-11: High intensity for use in daylight, snow, sand, etc.
Flashdot coverage: 15cm @ 100m
Standby mode: Illumination turns off between each setting
Battery: CR2032, 100+ hour life.
Illumination is switched off automatically after six hours to conserve battery
Weight: 570g
Waterproof to 3m, 300 mbar inner pressure

Reticles
CQB


Parallax adjustment is located in a third turret on the left side, allowing you to make adjustments without removing your eye from the scope.

Illuminated reticle control is also conveniently located on the left side of the scope immediately in front of the eyepiece. You have complete control over brightness with positive click stops.

-- John

 

[briansmithwins]

I'm using a Aimpoint ML3 (2MOA dot) in front of a 3X magnifier on a Larue pivot. It's got close range ability and the 3X allows ID and engagement of targets out to about 400 yards.

The combo is bigger and heavier than ideal, but everything is a compromise.

BSW

 

[Gunsby_Blazen]

i havent seen one of those burris xtr scopes, how much do they cost and where have you seen em for sale?
your talking about the xtr-14 right?

 

[JWarren]

Gunsby Blazen,

Take a look at SWFA.... you can get it with the FastFire mini-red dot for $736, or without for $567:


With Fastfire:

http://www.swfa.com/pc-12454-591-burris-1-4x24-xtreme-tactical-xtr-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx

Without Fastfire:

http://www.swfa.com/pc-12453-591-new-burris-1-4x24-xtreme-tactical-xtr-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx


-- John

 

[taliv]

that battery life and auto-shut off are deal-breakers for me on the short dot.

i'll stick with an aimpoint and plans to get a 3x magnifier as funds permit

 

[JWarren]

that battery life and auto-shut off are deal-breakers for me on the short dot.

$2,200 smackers for it doesn't help, either.


-- John

 

[MT GUNNY]

Burris has one specificaly built for AR 15 (XTR Tactical Ballistic Retical)

Im gonna get one I just dont know witch rifle I should put it on The 24 inch stainless Colt or the M4gery



Other than that Leupold has a nice one( Mark 4 QC).

 

[Chris Rhines]

I've had the Burris XTR for about three weeks, long enough to sight it in on my 3-gun rifle and shoot one match. I like it a lot, for the price.

The Burrisis a true 1x with a very wide field of view, the illumination is quite bright and does not seem to wash out in direct sunlight, and the reticule, while a little busy, is both very fast up close and very precise at longer ranges. I would like to see the extraneous hashmarks at 3, 9, and 12-o'clock deleted, as they do no good, and a 500 or 600-yard BDC is more than enough for a .223. The reticule is also in the 2nd focal plane, although I'm going to disagree with Zak and state that I prefer that for a low-power optic.

The XTR has an eye relief around 3.5 inches. This is too long for an AR, and pretty much requires the use of an extended optic mount. Annoying, but not a deal killer.

Unknown quantities so far include durability and battery life. I plan to take this rifle/scope to the MGM Ironman in a couple of weeks, and will have more to report afterwards.

The Meopta is externally very similar to the Burris XTR, and is very popular with the 3-gun crowd. It was developed by Meopta for brush hunting dangerous game. The reticule is a simple 1.7MOA dot with three hashmarks and no BDC, which makes those 300-400 yard shots a bit more challenging. The illumination is extremely bright, and the field of view is, I think, the widest of any 1-4x scope available.

On the subject of battery life, my opinion is: For my competition guns, I don't care about it, and replace the batteries before each big match. For my fighting guns, I want it to be more or less infinite, and I'm willing to put up with a lot less in the way of features for it. My fighting carbines have Aimpoint M3s in LaRue mounts.

One last note on the S&B Short Dot. I know a couple of 3-gun shooters who run them, and quite a few military and contractor-type guys who were issued them. The reports I've heard have not been positive at all - stories of electrical problems, wandering zeros, and other QC failures. YMMV.

- Chris

 

[JWarren]

Thank you for that, Chris!

Do please give us an update on durability and battery life. Those are concerns that have held me off of getting one.


-- John

 

[Zak Smith]

Burris


............... Larger version of above photo.