Ideas for an already "Sporterized" '03-A3??

[DanO68]

Good morning all,

I have a "bastardized" Sporter Remington '03-A3 that I picked up on-line as a package with another. Had no idea what this gun had on it. It's got an early ajdustable 'peep' that was meant for a .22, Lyman Commercial 48S w/flip peep, the peep was added in such a way that it modified the receiver, and has to be left this way. It currently has a monte carlo wood stock, 2 groove barrel that has been chopped to ~22" with matching front sight for the peep.

The sight was valued at $200.00, funny, but the gun was valued at $200 too. It's shoots great, (upgraded to timney trigger), totally sound gun.
____

Want to try to change this to an AR'ish like gun. Collapsable stock, and rails for mounting vertical forearm grip/laser/light, scout scope, total "black Gun" but on a bolt action, without anymore milling (minimal if necessary)

Seems to me to be a "one of a kind", unless my google capapbilities are bad. Do I just need to find a creative gun smith, or do any of you know of parts and pieces or techniques that will fit the 1903 A3? I'm trying to be cheap, it's a $200 gun, you know.

The Peep sights will not be removed (maybe the fore-end), a flash guard would be cool, and the ideally the parkerized finish will be changed to black.

I've seen variants of the Moisan with these features, same with AK/SKS. How about for the the good old Springfield 1903 A3, that someone messed with in the 50's already??

Thanks, and feel free to forward to anyone... Dan

 

[Sam1911]

A vertical forearm, laser, and light ... on a .30-'06 bolt-action rifle? What possible role is this weapon intended to fill? What is it for?

There are some things that could be done to make a useful and attractive rifle out of the poor abused '03-A3 ... kind of a shame to make it less useful just for giggles. Seems like a case of taking a $200 rifle, adding $300 worth of parts, and making it into a $100 beater.

 

[Creature]

Why dont you mess with it back into it's original military configuration?

 

[ugaarguy]

A vertical forearm, laser, and light ... on a .30-'06 bolt-action rifle? What possible role is this weapon intended to fill?

Dan, I have to agree with Sam on this one. Why not put an S&K scout scope mount on it ($70), and drop it into a synthetic stock to cut weight? Then you'd have a pseudo scout rifle, which would be much more useful.

S&K Mount - http://www.scopemounts.com/index.html?main.html#
Ramline Stock from Midway - http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/17...gfield-1903-1903a3-synthetic-black?cm_vc=S016
B&C Stock from Midway (more expensive, but stiffer & much lighter) - http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/43...springfield-1903a3-synthetic-black?cm_vc=S016

 

[Sam1911]

Collapsable stock,

I don't imagine you'll find one for an '03A3. There are synthetic stocks built for them. Ramline makes one. A lot of collapsable stocks would eventually have trouble repeatedly absorbing '06 recoil. That might not matter though. Most guns bubba'd this way don't see the range very often.

and rails for mounting vertical forearm grip/laser/light, scout scope,

You can buy ones that just screw on to the stock. Cheap and easy.

Seems to me to be a "one of a kind", unless my google capapbilities are bad.

Maybe. Probably more likely that most folks who've done such things are (or become) embarassed by the result and don't post pictures.

Do I just need to find a creative gun smith

Good gunsmiths are probably busy with real work that makes sense, but if you do find one to do this, consider how much he's going to charge you by the hour.

do any of you know of parts and pieces or techniques that will fit the 1903 A3?

Sure! The Brownell's catalog and other such places are full of them. But they mostly are parts designed to make the rifle more precise, more ergonomic, more useful, or more aesthetic. To go the other way, you'll have to get creative.

The Peep sights will not be removed (maybe the fore-end)

You mean to say you'll have no front sight?

and the ideally the parkerized finish will be changed to black.

DuraCoat or GunKote or Alumahyde paint products will do that if you can follow the directions carefully. Paint over parkerizing is a durable finish. You could do that and add the Ramline stock and a scope and have a sort-of tactical rifle that would be useful for hunting and target shooting.

I've seen variants of the Moisan with these features, same with AK/SKS.

Yes. AKs (and to a lesser degree SKSs) can be made arguably more functional as practical defensive type carbines with some relatively simple changes. Those changes, more or less, fit with the role the rifle was built to fill. They make some level of sense.

When you see this stuff done to a Mosin, that's because they were cheap as dirt and young kids and bored goofballs felt it would be funny or cute or ironic to waste a rifle and a little cash by butchering one into a useless range toy that they could throw away or toss in the back of the gun cabinet after blazing off a few rounds.

 

[Sam1911]

See? http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7698618&postcount=11

 

[henschman]

I would Scout it. It already has good adjustable aperture sights and can be fed from stripper clips... Just put an XS scout mount and whatever optic you like, plus a good sling, and call it a day. I might even consider getting a .308 barrel for it and getting it even shorter, like around 18". Heck you might even make it worth more if you made it a Scout, considering how that type of rifle has quite a following and everyone knows that 03A3s are great shooters.

 

[451 Detonics]

A pic would help visualize things but...

A good smith can set it up for a AR free float front tube, you can get a PG sporter stock and chop it in front of the mag to clear the new fore end. Have it drilled and tapped and have the muzzle threaded.

Then if you get real lucky you can locate one of these...

WW1 1903 Springfield 20 Round Extension magazine in original carton. Complete with long follower spring with follower and cover for magazine. Excellent Condition. Classic and rare 1903 Springfield accessory for giving extended fire power to the 03 Air Service rifle and/or the 1903 rifle in the Trench. Will display like a million dollar bill on your 1903 Rifle. $1100.00

 

[Rail Driver]

Adding a flash hider/muzzle brake to a 30-06? Sounds like an improvement to me... Good idea on other .30 caliber rifles with stout recoil why not this one? Just need to make sure you choose a muzzle brake rather than JUST a flash hider (of course as Sam said, unless you plan to shoot at night a lot.)

Adding a foregrip? Another ergonomic upgrade... Makes the rifle easier to handle (in my opinion). I have since reconsidered. Sam is correct, with the mechanics of operating a bolt action rifle, a vfg just slows you down.

I like the peep sights, they're highly effective and work great in conjunction with a scout scope. I'd leave the front sight in place.
I agree that an AR-style quad rail would look odd and probably difficult to mount properly (securely and in line with the bore).

Also, to add... If you're interested in a "tactical" look, why not craft your own "dragunov" style thumbhole stock for the gun? Then you could go all "Sniper" with it. You can find stock blanks a lot of places.

 

[Sam1911]

Adding a flash hider/muzzle brake to a 30-06? Sounds like an improvement to me... Good idea on other .30 caliber rifles with stout recoil why not this one?

Muzzle brake? Ok. I thought he said a flash guard. Unless he's going to be shooting this a night, a flash hider is kindof a 'lookey-loo' thing to add.

Adding a foregrip? Another ergonomic upgrade... Makes the rifle easier to handle (in my opinion).

Ever shot a bolt-action rifle with a VFG? Is it possible to say that one would improve the handling and accuracy of shot placement with one? That's going to be really weird to grip while working the bolt. On semi-autos, when firing CQB style, they do make things easier for a lot of shooters. For this '03-A3 it's more like Super Swamper tires on a corvette. Gonna slow you down, and not going to do what they're intended to do.

I like the peep sights, they're highly effective and work great in conjunction with a scout scope.

Absolutely! Now, why was it he was going to take off the front sight again?

Why do people have a heart attack when someone wants to do something to THEIR OWN GUN?

No heart attacks here, though I feel bad for the old warhorse. But there's some responsibility, I think, to point out errors in planning.

Someone may ask, "can I put diesel fuel in my Tercel?" The answer is certainly, "YES!" But you might feel some compunction to offer a word of advice with that answer.

I agree that an AR-style quad rail would look stupid and probably difficult to mount properly (securely and in line with the bore),

Oh, so YOU can make negative editorial comments? Hee hee.

 

[1KPerDay]

I applaud Sam for his restraint.

 

[Rail Driver]

I applaud Sam for his restraint.

I do too. When I came back and read what I posted, I wanted to smack myself. I apologize for my behavior.

I did re-think the bolt action with a foregrip idea and after pantomiming it a few times with one of my bolt guns I've got to agree, it does slow things down.

I still think a quad rail would look pretty bad on a bolt gun.

 

[451 Detonics]

I think it would be both fun and not that difficult to do something similar to this...



Yes that is a 22 but the general idea would translate. You could also speak with the folks who do the kits for tubed receiver guns and see if a mod for one of those would work as well.

 

[Sam1911]

When I came back and read what I posted, I wanted to smack myself. I apologize for my behavior.

Oh, good heavens, you guys are taking this far too seriously!

 

[DanO68]

Great Ideas?

All,
I appreciate your opininions as Moderators and Members, but I was looking for "ideas", like Rail Driver and others.

1) Front sight would probably stay, as if the "scout scope" had isues, I would have a back up. (as much as I would like to have a muzzle brake. Oops...)
2) Thumb hole stock, GREAT idea. (Thats what I was looking for)
3) the barrel is actually 19 1/4" from receiver to end. (chopped right?) Not able to restore?
4) Rail mounted to bottom only, if sturdy, another great idea. I was thinking quad for stability, and floating the barrel.
5) The "old dog" can shoot anything, with anything. shot/wood/rubber/125-250gr. (I hand load)
6) Already looking at Ram-Line stock, Feed back? Heard mixed. Other manufacturers?
7) Scout scope mount. Found several on line, should not be an issue.
8) End all, light weight, quick in the woods, multi-functional, "Personal Toy" as we all have them. (35's on a lifted corvette?? not my style, but I'd drive one if I had the chance)

$200 gun, $300 work/pieces? Depends on the individuals budget don't you think? I know guys 'in love' with certain guns, how many similar guns do you all have in the safe? Is that rational? Reasonable? This is one gun.

I hunt areas that are deep timber, guns like the .45-70, great, yet at the edge of the Forest, the Elk can be 200yds away. I want to make a gun for "Me". This is not to flip, or worry about selling. I have a 300 Win. aleady, for "Long Range". Practice to 600yd regularly.

Different strokes for different folks. Thanks for all the great ideas, and thinking outside the box. That was what I was looking for.
I would appreciate any additional "ideas" too. (Opinions? Not so much, if you want to call names? I didn't think this was the place. Free speach, and all, we the gun owners need to ALWAYS stick together.)

In the past new guns/cartriges were developed aginst popular beliefs. "Wild cats" etc.
Thinking outside the box, creating prototypes for new ideas, starting points for future weapons and systems. (Ex: a .50 AR?) The military is using the Beowolf right now.

I'm off the soapbox now. As a new member, I look forward to the posts.

 

[DanO68]

451 Detonics, Thanks.
I was thinking of modifying or utilizing another magazine for this purpose, I had no idea. Thanks for the picture. I'll look, but doubt I'll ever see one again.

Other manufs have detachable magazine for different calibers. Think I can use any of those?
Browning BLR/BAR
Steyr
Doesn't the Remington have an option for removable mag for the 700's?

Dan

 

[303tom]

Let`s see it !

 

[Sam1911]

1) Front sight would probably stay, as if the "scout scope" had isues, I would have a back up. (as much as I would like to have a muzzle brake. Oops...)

Great! No reason to lose the front sight. If you shoot it and the recoil is too heavy, consider a well-fit Decellerator or Limbsaver recoil pad. They work REALLY well. If it's still too much, then consider having a smith mount a good brake. (Not a do-it-yourself job, really.)

2) Thumb hole stock, GREAT idea. (Thats what I was looking for)

OOooh. I though you wanted a collapsible stock like an M-4 carbine uses. My bad, obviously. A thumb-hole stock can work well if you can find one and that appeals to you.

3) the barrel is actually 19 1/4" from receiver to end. (chopped right?) Not able to restore?

Yes.

4) Rail mounted to bottom only, if sturdy, another great idea. I was thinking quad for stability, and floating the barrel.

Separate issues. What is the rail on the bottom for? You don't need a laser sight on a .30-'06. You really don't need a flashlight on it, either, unless you'll be hog hunting at night and such things are legal in your area.

You really don't want a vertical fore grip on a bolt-action rifle. That's just very awkward to operate.

So what's the rail for? They're uncomfortable to hold and they snag on stuff. They can be a good compromise if you NEED to mount things, but if you don't, they're a detriment, not a benefit.

Free floating the barrel can be done easily. That doesn't have anything to do with a quad rail. AR-15 style hand guard tubes won't work with this kind of rifle at all (without some very complicated work by a gunsmith).

5) The "old dog" can shoot anything, with anything. shot/wood/rubber/125-250gr. (I hand load)

Wood? Rubber? You lost me. You're making or loading wood and rubber bullets in your .30-'06? What in heaven's name for?

6) Already looking at Ram-Line stock, Feed back? Heard mixed. Other manufacturers?

Ram Line is ok. Not great, not terrible. The '03-A3 action is not as common as it once was. I don't see that action listed on the McMillan's or HS Precision's sites. You might call them and ask. But that's $$$.

8) End all, light weight, quick in the woods, multi-functional, "Personal Toy" as we all have them.

Well, that's fine, and you seem to be closer to that goal, now.

$200 gun, $300 work/pieces? Depends on the individuals budget don't you think? I know guys 'in love' with certain guns, how many similar guns do you all have in the safe? Is that rational? Reasonable? This is one gun.

What?

I hunt areas that are deep timber, guns like the .45-70, great, yet at the edge of the Forest, the Elk can be 200yds away.

Sounds perfect for a .45-70 or .30-'06 loaded right -- or 'most any other medium game round. Set up the '03A3 as a Scout carbine if you like that style and you'll enjoy it for decades!

We're just hoping to help you make it something that is both fun to shoot and which does its job well. So that's why you're getting honest, straight talk about no lights, lasers, collapsing stocks, and VFGs.

Good luck with the project!

 

[BRUNO1911]

Hello Dan,here's my .02

I have two on going 03 projects and have thought about going this route

http://www.tubegun.net/
http://www.tubegun.net/MAKMagnum.htm

I have not contacted them about a kit for a 03 but I have drawn up some idea's

Good luck,Be Safe.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Most M4-style collapsible stocks and vertical foregrips I have seen impress me as adequate for 5.56/.223 but not for .30-06. Of course I have been wrong before.