A friend acquired an old Winchester lever action rifle and we're trying to ID it. Caliber is 44 WCF, no model number given, serial number 313XX, 20" round barrel. It has a short length of pull, a rounded old style steel buttplate, a pistol grip with matching curved lever and a raised comb. The magazine is not as long as the barrel.
Identify Winchester Lever Action
- Thread starter dook
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
If it's a .44 WCF (44-40) It has to be either a 1892 or 1873.
The 92 would have two vertical locking blocks at the rear of the bolt.
The 73 would have removable side-plates on both sides of the receiver.
The curved lever and button magazine would probably make it either a hacksaw gunsmith project, or a special order Sporting Rifle. Most of them had 24" barrels from the factory.
Is the forend held on with a steel band, or a steel cap?
If you post a picture a positive ID could be made?
rc
The 92 would have two vertical locking blocks at the rear of the bolt.
The 73 would have removable side-plates on both sides of the receiver.
The curved lever and button magazine would probably make it either a hacksaw gunsmith project, or a special order Sporting Rifle. Most of them had 24" barrels from the factory.
Is the forend held on with a steel band, or a steel cap?
If you post a picture a positive ID could be made?
rc
Thanks for your quick reply, rcmodel. (working from memory here)It has two vertical locking blocks at the rear of the receiver. It does not have removable side plates.
The barrel looks factory, it has the stepped machining at the muzzle. The fore end is held with a cap on the front.
The barrel looks factory, it has the stepped machining at the muzzle. The fore end is held with a cap on the front.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Well see, that right there, + the steel forend cap, + the button magazine + the curved lever is a tip-off somebody cut off a 24" Sporting Rifle to 20".
Back then, Winchester faced off the muzzle completly flat, with no step or crown visible.
Later on, they used a completely rounded crown with no step.
In no case did they use a more modern stepped crown.
It is common to find old black powder era Winchesters with soft steel barrels that had the muzzle rifling worn away from years & years of cleaning rod wear.
When that happens, bullets key-hole and you can't hit the broad side of a barn, from inside the barn.
The fix was to cut off the barrel further back behind the worn rifling where it had not come in contact with the cleaning rod, and then re-set the front sight.
rc
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Thanks, I guess that makes it a model 92 then. The short length of pull might indicate that it was customized for someone of smaller stature. I take it none of the 1892's had a raised comb or curved lever.
What gets me about the front sight is that it's dovetailed, but I suppose the gunsmith that shortened the barrel dovetailed it himself rather than drilled and tapped for a screw-on front sight. Or maybe he installed a carbine barrel.
What gets me about the front sight is that it's dovetailed, but I suppose the gunsmith that shortened the barrel dovetailed it himself rather than drilled and tapped for a screw-on front sight. Or maybe he installed a carbine barrel.
bhk
Member
I am betting it is a Winchester Model 53, essentially a lightweight renumbered 92 that was made with a pistol grip, curved lever, and a button magazine. These were made in the 1920s and generally came with a 22" barrel. They came with a ramp front sight, so (as rcmodel suggested) your barrel may have been shortened.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
A model 53 would say so on the barrel.
rc
I looked up the serial number on this site:
http://www.oldguns.net/sn_php/windateslookup.php
and it says"The number etered is outside the range stored in our database (high)". It could be a mistake, though.
http://www.oldguns.net/sn_php/windateslookup.php
and it says"The number etered is outside the range stored in our database (high)". It could be a mistake, though.
Eastbank,
The reciever and fore end look like the one pictured, but the magazine protrudes several inches and has a pistol grip and curved lever, as well as shorter barrel, crescent buttplate and high comb.
My Fjestads Blue Book says they made the Model 53 in both straight and pistol grip.
The reciever and fore end look like the one pictured, but the magazine protrudes several inches and has a pistol grip and curved lever, as well as shorter barrel, crescent buttplate and high comb.
My Fjestads Blue Book says they made the Model 53 in both straight and pistol grip.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I agree that it sounds like a chopped-off 1892 half-magazine Sporting Rifle.
Float Pilot
Member
What does it say on the upper and / or lower tangs of the action?
Jon Coppenbarger
Member
does the magazine have a lever on it? just checking as if it does it could be a take down version.
I don't have the rifle here now, but I didn't see any markings on the upper and lower tangs. The only mark on the reciever is the serial number 313XX, but it seems Winchester made many different models of rifles with the same serial numbers.
There is no lever on the magazine. Fjestad's shows they made both take down and regular Model 53'S.
There is no lever on the magazine. Fjestad's shows they made both take down and regular Model 53'S.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
53's had button magazines. If yours has a half magazine it is not a 53 but an 1892.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
An 1892 with serial #313xx was made in 1900.
rc
rc
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
One cannot assume 53 parts on an 1892. That is because the 53 was derived 'from' existing configurations of the 1892. The 1892 was indeed available as a Deluxe Sporting Rifle which means a pistol grip stock, corresponding curved lever and typically a crescent buttplate. These guns were basically available in any imaginable configuration straight from Winchester by special order.
Red Cent
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Red Cent
Member
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Not back then.
They were certainly produced in lesser numbers than other configurations but they were indeed produced. The "Deluxe Sporting Rifle" was a fairly specific configuration but they could be ordered with any combination of features.
Here's my late model Uberti 1873 Deluxe Sporting Rifle .38-40. Note the checkered stocks and pistol grip buttstock. This one happens to sport a 24" octagon barrel and full length magazine tube. They are also produced with a half round/half octagon 24" barrel with button or half magazine. All of which are authentic reproductions of original configurations also available with the 1892.
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blackwalnut
Member
identifying old winchester...
Hey Dook instead of trying to wade through all the helpful information and mis-information and drek how about consulting a reliable source of information. If you still have a good library in town its a good to start and then from there consult Winchester collectors or reference material. So many variations exist that trying to do it this way will drive you nuts. If you think they know it all they dont. After all the knowledge of God is the beginning of wisdom. Everything else is runner up.
Hey Dook instead of trying to wade through all the helpful information and mis-information and drek how about consulting a reliable source of information. If you still have a good library in town its a good to start and then from there consult Winchester collectors or reference material. So many variations exist that trying to do it this way will drive you nuts. If you think they know it all they dont. After all the knowledge of God is the beginning of wisdom. Everything else is runner up.
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