Not about guns, but it is about freedom.
My (UK) government wants to introduce compulsory ID cards within a few years.
You can see what they are saying here: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/comrace/identitycards/index.html
I hate this idea. I think it is a direct infringment on freedom, and opens the door for even greater infringments.
I am intending to write to the government and my MP to express my concerns, and am trying to put together as strong an argument as possible. I would appreciate any input from people here.
The text below is part of one document from the Home Office website, which looks at the public's opinion on ID cards. I've pasted in the part looking at specific arguments from the government and the public in favour of ID cards.
The bold text is my comments of each of the arguments (many of which I think reveal very worrying attitudes). Ones in large fonts are ones that particularly annoyed me.
The original document is at:
http://uk.sitestat.com/homeoffice/h.../identitycards_summary_of_finding_031111.pdf]
****
General Public - Views For
MAIN THEMES:
* Enhance sense of community - visible means to feel pride in citizenship
* Psychological security - knowledge that we are properly accounted for by our authorities
* Provides user with easy way to confirm identity
* Proof of eligibility to benefits
* Easy access to a range of services
* Only object if something to hide
* Will not infringe civil liberties
* Help fight identity fraud
* Costs
* Proof of age
* Shouldn't be a problem as we already have passports and driving licences
* Help prevent illegal working and immigration
* Internal travel identity requirements by airlines
* Easy travel in Europe
* Reference to having cards in the Second World War with no problems
* Long overdue
ENHANCE SENSE OF COMMUNITY/PSYCHOLOGICAL SECURITY
This was a common theme amongst those who favoured the principle of a card scheme.
Incorporated in many of these views was the view that the card must be universal in order to be worthwhile.
"The card scheme needs to be universal, with no "special category". We all share the
burdens, responsibilities and pleasures of Citizenship. Targeted areas are untidy and
ultimately expensive."
Name supplied, Sussex
I know who I am.
I know what I am.
I know who my ancestors were.
(As half my ancestors have lived in this land for centuries, I feel insulted that I need a piece of paper to tell me that
I belong here. As the other half of my ancestors came here to escape people killing them because they "don't belong here",
I find this even more worrying.)
I do not need a piece of paper to tell me this.
If your sense of identity depends on a piece of paper, then it must be very shallow.
EASY WAY TO CONFIRM IDENTITY/PROOF OF ELIGIBILITY TO BENEFITS
Many comments were made that having only one card to carry as proof of identity would be much more convenient. There were
also several references to the inconvenience of frequently being asked for proofs of identity, and having to carry such a
range of documents. Easier access to benefits was frequently mentioned as a good reason for having an identity card.
"Now isn't it just common sense and LOGICAL to sweep away all these and having
to carry some of these and having to carry the ID card. Wouldn't it cut down on
problems of identification."
Name supplied, Lanarkshire
A card was seen as a useful form of identity for those who don't drive and don't want to carry a passport book everywhere.
True. But why force it on those who already have one or both of those. Why criminalise those who chose not to have
one?
EASY ACCESS TO A RANGE OF SERVICES
This was a popular reason for wanting a card. It was felt that it would be genuinely useful and cut down waiting times for
accessing services. It was felt that an ID card would be of great use to retailers and in pubs and clubs, which frequently
demand to see official ID cards prior to admittance or service.
NO INFRINGEMENT OF CIVIL LIBERTIES/ONLY OBJECT IF SOMETHING TO HIDE
Many comments refuted the claims that a card scheme would infringe civil liberties. Several comments were made discounting
this notion. A frequent comment was that the only people who could possibly object to a card scheme were those who had
something to hide.
"Ignore the shrill cries of "what about human rights and personal freedom etc".
Most of the planet does not have these luxuries!"
Name supplied, Surrey
HUMAN RIGHTS AND PERSONAL FREEDOM ARE NOT "LUXURIES"!!!
JUST BECAUSE SOME/MOST PEOPLES ARE NOT FREE DOES NOT MEAN WE SHOULD BE THE SAME!
"I totally refute the notion that it is an evasion of privacy, since we already have a
birth certificate and N I number. I agree the card should contain biometric information
against fraud otherwise there is no point in having a card."
Name supplied, W Sussex
"Police will not want to waste their time stopping everyone in the street just to
inspect their ID cards. They have more important duties to carry out. It is only people
who behave suspiciously who should - and quite rightly deserve to - fear. That is the
purpose of having ID cards!"
Name supplied (email)
That assumes the police are (and remain) universally competent and fair.
And why should anyone have to "fear" someone thinking they are "suspicious"?
"Like my friends and acquaintances, I cannot understand how a law abiding citizen
can object to the proposal or how they will limit or infringe my "civil liberties"."
Name supplied, Flintshire
This is a "Free Country", or at least I hope it is.
And in a Free Country, if you are suspected to a crime, the Burden of Proof is on the Authorities. You are Innocent until
They Prove otherwise.
Being forced, by law, to prove something (e.g. who you are) flies against the principle of "innocent until proven guilty".
Further more, if it is compulsory to carry the ID cards when outside (supposedly not the plan, but that could always be
changed), then that effectively means you have to have permission from the government to leave your house, shop, etc. As
well as giving the impression that the Authorities suspect you are up to something/ shouldn't be there, and require you to
prove you are not a criminal.
HELP FIGHT IDENTITY FRAUD
Many people considered that a card scheme would be an effective tool to help prevent identity fraud.
"... I support the idea of ID cards if this would help reduce the number of victims of
fraud, and its cost, and help catch those guilty. Most of us already carry a number of
different cards and often need some means of proving our identity."
Name supplied, Cambs
Putting all your ID on a card seems like a risky way of preventing fraud or ID theft. Forgers and hackers always
eventually find a way round any copy-protection, and the more "fool-proof" the ID cards are, the more damage will be done
when someone inevitably cracks them. (I'm sure far fewer people would have drowned if the Titanic hadn't been advertised as
"Unsinkable").
PS: I was talking to a friend about this last night, and he pointed out an even simpler way round it. Just bribe whoever
issues the cards.
COSTS
On the costs of a card, several people commented that they would be willing to pay for their card as it would be genuinely
useful to them and would be worth the money.
"... if people pay for one they would certainly use it, it would give the card authority."
Name supplied, Co Durham
Others commented that although they wouldn't mind being charged for a card, they felt that exceptions should be made for
those in receipt of benefits and elderly people.
Lots of things are "useful", and people are willing to pay for them. Doesn't mean everyone should be obliged to buy them,
especially if they disagree about them being useful.
PROOF OF AGE
Having a card as a ready means of proving age for age-restricted goods was very popular. It would help to restrict access
to these goods. The sale of fireworks to underage children was frequently mentioned.
i) We already have various means of proving age.
ii) Shopkeepers can already ask for proof of age, and refuse to serve people without it.
iii) Shopkeepers can also forget/decline to ask for proof, or serve people they know to be underage. Compulsory ID won't
change this.
iv) This also shows how ID can be used to (and indeed, is intended to) deny people goods and services if the government
doesn't think that sort of person should be allowed them. Which is fine, as long as the government is reasonable. Which it
may not always be. And if its not, that becomes unacceptable control over the behaviour of the people (also known as
tyranny). I maintain it is extremely dangerous to build the infrastructure of a police state, merely because you hope none
will misuse it.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of
it."
- Thomas Jefferson
WE ALREADY HAVE PASSPORTS AND DRIVING LICENCES
As a follow-on from views that a card scheme would not pose any threat to civil liberties, many comments were received on
the fact that we already have identity cards in the form of our passports and driving licences. Therefore, it was considered
that the concept of identity cards was not something entirely new for people to get used to - it would simply be an official
recognition that these documents prove identity.
There was also the view that a lot of information is already held about people on databases anyway, so the introduction of a
card scheme would not alter this aspect, and therefore should not cause concern.
i) Why should be forced to pay for an ID Card, when - as you say - we already have means of proving identity?
ii) But more importantly:
I am currently FREE to move about without a passport or driving licence. Doing so does no harm to anyone. But with
Compulsory ID, I would be FORCED to carry ID, and CRIMINALISED if I did not.
HELP PREVENT ILLEGAL WORKING AND IMMIGRATION
It was considered that the introduction of a card scheme on a universal basis would put us on the same footing as other
European countries and make the UK a less desirable destination for illegal immigrants. It would also make it harder for
those already here to access services illegally.
"I consider that all foreign nationals should be obliged to hold such cards if working
in the UK. In view of the limited work involved in applying for such a card this should
not deter in any way those wishing to work here legally."
Name supplied, Shropshire
Obviously, when compulsory ID cards are introduced, those who knowingly employ illegals, don't check work permits, or pay
in cash to avoid tax/ NI/ minimum wage laws will suddenly come over all law-abiding.
(And besides, the concept of "illegal working" has always struck me as an inherently authoritarian idea).
"...make the UK a less desirable destination for illegal immigrants..."
Good one, Blunkett. The sure-fire way of deterring illegal immigration. Just make sure our country is an even more
totalitarian state than Iraq or Afghanistan or wherever else they're coming from.
INTERNAL TRAVEL IDENTITY/EASY TRAVEL IN EUROPE
There were comments from people who have been asked to provide identity documents for internal flights, which has proved
very inconvenient, especially to those without a current valid passport or who did not wish to the passport book around.
Just having a passport card as eligibility to travel instead of having to carry the book was popular.
That just does not make sense. "Having to prove ID makes travel abroad inconvenient, especially if I don't want to
get/carry a passport. Therefore I (and everyone else) should be forced to carry ID". ***?!
"I still have a French Carte de Sejour from when I worked there last year, and have
found it invaluable as a photo-ID and travel document."
Name supplied, London
CARDS IN THE SECOND WORLD WAR
The fact that there was a card scheme in the war, which was viewed as being successful and useful was highlighted by several
people as being a good reason for having one now.
LONG OVERDUE
The introduction of an identity card scheme in the UK being long overdue was a comment which appeared frequently in
correspondence from those in favour of a scheme.
Only true if ID is actually a Good Thing.
OTHER ISSUES
Some comments were received from people confirming they would only support a scheme if it was compulsory, as this would be
the only scheme that would be worthwhile. However, others commented that a voluntary scheme was better than nothing.
There was a degree of understanding in the responses that the Government may not be in a position to decide and announce the
full details of how the scheme would work right at the beginning and there would be a degree of development as the scheme
went along, without this implying anything underhand.
"I agree that Parliament will have to be asked to approve a card scheme without a
complete description at the time as to the full range of its potential uses. It might be
possible to arrive at a list of subjects that could be covered by secondary legislation,
but even then it would be difficult to foresee all likely eventualities."
Name supplied, Gloucestershire
Facilitating new ways of voting was also mentioned as a potential advantage of a
card scheme.
There was some concern amongst those in favour that the scheme would take too long to implement and would become a "project
destined to be shelved". It was generally felt that the issues a card scheme would address need to be tackled sooner rather
than later.
****
My (UK) government wants to introduce compulsory ID cards within a few years.
You can see what they are saying here: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/comrace/identitycards/index.html
I hate this idea. I think it is a direct infringment on freedom, and opens the door for even greater infringments.
I am intending to write to the government and my MP to express my concerns, and am trying to put together as strong an argument as possible. I would appreciate any input from people here.
The text below is part of one document from the Home Office website, which looks at the public's opinion on ID cards. I've pasted in the part looking at specific arguments from the government and the public in favour of ID cards.
The bold text is my comments of each of the arguments (many of which I think reveal very worrying attitudes). Ones in large fonts are ones that particularly annoyed me.
The original document is at:
http://uk.sitestat.com/homeoffice/h.../identitycards_summary_of_finding_031111.pdf]
****
General Public - Views For
MAIN THEMES:
* Enhance sense of community - visible means to feel pride in citizenship
* Psychological security - knowledge that we are properly accounted for by our authorities
* Provides user with easy way to confirm identity
* Proof of eligibility to benefits
* Easy access to a range of services
* Only object if something to hide
* Will not infringe civil liberties
* Help fight identity fraud
* Costs
* Proof of age
* Shouldn't be a problem as we already have passports and driving licences
* Help prevent illegal working and immigration
* Internal travel identity requirements by airlines
* Easy travel in Europe
* Reference to having cards in the Second World War with no problems
* Long overdue
ENHANCE SENSE OF COMMUNITY/PSYCHOLOGICAL SECURITY
This was a common theme amongst those who favoured the principle of a card scheme.
Incorporated in many of these views was the view that the card must be universal in order to be worthwhile.
"The card scheme needs to be universal, with no "special category". We all share the
burdens, responsibilities and pleasures of Citizenship. Targeted areas are untidy and
ultimately expensive."
Name supplied, Sussex
I know who I am.
I know what I am.
I know who my ancestors were.
(As half my ancestors have lived in this land for centuries, I feel insulted that I need a piece of paper to tell me that
I belong here. As the other half of my ancestors came here to escape people killing them because they "don't belong here",
I find this even more worrying.)
I do not need a piece of paper to tell me this.
If your sense of identity depends on a piece of paper, then it must be very shallow.
EASY WAY TO CONFIRM IDENTITY/PROOF OF ELIGIBILITY TO BENEFITS
Many comments were made that having only one card to carry as proof of identity would be much more convenient. There were
also several references to the inconvenience of frequently being asked for proofs of identity, and having to carry such a
range of documents. Easier access to benefits was frequently mentioned as a good reason for having an identity card.
"Now isn't it just common sense and LOGICAL to sweep away all these and having
to carry some of these and having to carry the ID card. Wouldn't it cut down on
problems of identification."
Name supplied, Lanarkshire
A card was seen as a useful form of identity for those who don't drive and don't want to carry a passport book everywhere.
True. But why force it on those who already have one or both of those. Why criminalise those who chose not to have
one?
EASY ACCESS TO A RANGE OF SERVICES
This was a popular reason for wanting a card. It was felt that it would be genuinely useful and cut down waiting times for
accessing services. It was felt that an ID card would be of great use to retailers and in pubs and clubs, which frequently
demand to see official ID cards prior to admittance or service.
NO INFRINGEMENT OF CIVIL LIBERTIES/ONLY OBJECT IF SOMETHING TO HIDE
Many comments refuted the claims that a card scheme would infringe civil liberties. Several comments were made discounting
this notion. A frequent comment was that the only people who could possibly object to a card scheme were those who had
something to hide.
"Ignore the shrill cries of "what about human rights and personal freedom etc".
Most of the planet does not have these luxuries!"
Name supplied, Surrey
HUMAN RIGHTS AND PERSONAL FREEDOM ARE NOT "LUXURIES"!!!
JUST BECAUSE SOME/MOST PEOPLES ARE NOT FREE DOES NOT MEAN WE SHOULD BE THE SAME!
"I totally refute the notion that it is an evasion of privacy, since we already have a
birth certificate and N I number. I agree the card should contain biometric information
against fraud otherwise there is no point in having a card."
Name supplied, W Sussex
"Police will not want to waste their time stopping everyone in the street just to
inspect their ID cards. They have more important duties to carry out. It is only people
who behave suspiciously who should - and quite rightly deserve to - fear. That is the
purpose of having ID cards!"
Name supplied (email)
That assumes the police are (and remain) universally competent and fair.
And why should anyone have to "fear" someone thinking they are "suspicious"?
"Like my friends and acquaintances, I cannot understand how a law abiding citizen
can object to the proposal or how they will limit or infringe my "civil liberties"."
Name supplied, Flintshire
This is a "Free Country", or at least I hope it is.
And in a Free Country, if you are suspected to a crime, the Burden of Proof is on the Authorities. You are Innocent until
They Prove otherwise.
Being forced, by law, to prove something (e.g. who you are) flies against the principle of "innocent until proven guilty".
Further more, if it is compulsory to carry the ID cards when outside (supposedly not the plan, but that could always be
changed), then that effectively means you have to have permission from the government to leave your house, shop, etc. As
well as giving the impression that the Authorities suspect you are up to something/ shouldn't be there, and require you to
prove you are not a criminal.
HELP FIGHT IDENTITY FRAUD
Many people considered that a card scheme would be an effective tool to help prevent identity fraud.
"... I support the idea of ID cards if this would help reduce the number of victims of
fraud, and its cost, and help catch those guilty. Most of us already carry a number of
different cards and often need some means of proving our identity."
Name supplied, Cambs
Putting all your ID on a card seems like a risky way of preventing fraud or ID theft. Forgers and hackers always
eventually find a way round any copy-protection, and the more "fool-proof" the ID cards are, the more damage will be done
when someone inevitably cracks them. (I'm sure far fewer people would have drowned if the Titanic hadn't been advertised as
"Unsinkable").
PS: I was talking to a friend about this last night, and he pointed out an even simpler way round it. Just bribe whoever
issues the cards.
COSTS
On the costs of a card, several people commented that they would be willing to pay for their card as it would be genuinely
useful to them and would be worth the money.
"... if people pay for one they would certainly use it, it would give the card authority."
Name supplied, Co Durham
Others commented that although they wouldn't mind being charged for a card, they felt that exceptions should be made for
those in receipt of benefits and elderly people.
Lots of things are "useful", and people are willing to pay for them. Doesn't mean everyone should be obliged to buy them,
especially if they disagree about them being useful.
PROOF OF AGE
Having a card as a ready means of proving age for age-restricted goods was very popular. It would help to restrict access
to these goods. The sale of fireworks to underage children was frequently mentioned.
i) We already have various means of proving age.
ii) Shopkeepers can already ask for proof of age, and refuse to serve people without it.
iii) Shopkeepers can also forget/decline to ask for proof, or serve people they know to be underage. Compulsory ID won't
change this.
iv) This also shows how ID can be used to (and indeed, is intended to) deny people goods and services if the government
doesn't think that sort of person should be allowed them. Which is fine, as long as the government is reasonable. Which it
may not always be. And if its not, that becomes unacceptable control over the behaviour of the people (also known as
tyranny). I maintain it is extremely dangerous to build the infrastructure of a police state, merely because you hope none
will misuse it.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of
it."
- Thomas Jefferson
WE ALREADY HAVE PASSPORTS AND DRIVING LICENCES
As a follow-on from views that a card scheme would not pose any threat to civil liberties, many comments were received on
the fact that we already have identity cards in the form of our passports and driving licences. Therefore, it was considered
that the concept of identity cards was not something entirely new for people to get used to - it would simply be an official
recognition that these documents prove identity.
There was also the view that a lot of information is already held about people on databases anyway, so the introduction of a
card scheme would not alter this aspect, and therefore should not cause concern.
i) Why should be forced to pay for an ID Card, when - as you say - we already have means of proving identity?
ii) But more importantly:
I am currently FREE to move about without a passport or driving licence. Doing so does no harm to anyone. But with
Compulsory ID, I would be FORCED to carry ID, and CRIMINALISED if I did not.
HELP PREVENT ILLEGAL WORKING AND IMMIGRATION
It was considered that the introduction of a card scheme on a universal basis would put us on the same footing as other
European countries and make the UK a less desirable destination for illegal immigrants. It would also make it harder for
those already here to access services illegally.
"I consider that all foreign nationals should be obliged to hold such cards if working
in the UK. In view of the limited work involved in applying for such a card this should
not deter in any way those wishing to work here legally."
Name supplied, Shropshire
Obviously, when compulsory ID cards are introduced, those who knowingly employ illegals, don't check work permits, or pay
in cash to avoid tax/ NI/ minimum wage laws will suddenly come over all law-abiding.
(And besides, the concept of "illegal working" has always struck me as an inherently authoritarian idea).
"...make the UK a less desirable destination for illegal immigrants..."
Good one, Blunkett. The sure-fire way of deterring illegal immigration. Just make sure our country is an even more
totalitarian state than Iraq or Afghanistan or wherever else they're coming from.
INTERNAL TRAVEL IDENTITY/EASY TRAVEL IN EUROPE
There were comments from people who have been asked to provide identity documents for internal flights, which has proved
very inconvenient, especially to those without a current valid passport or who did not wish to the passport book around.
Just having a passport card as eligibility to travel instead of having to carry the book was popular.
That just does not make sense. "Having to prove ID makes travel abroad inconvenient, especially if I don't want to
get/carry a passport. Therefore I (and everyone else) should be forced to carry ID". ***?!
"I still have a French Carte de Sejour from when I worked there last year, and have
found it invaluable as a photo-ID and travel document."
Name supplied, London
CARDS IN THE SECOND WORLD WAR
The fact that there was a card scheme in the war, which was viewed as being successful and useful was highlighted by several
people as being a good reason for having one now.
LONG OVERDUE
The introduction of an identity card scheme in the UK being long overdue was a comment which appeared frequently in
correspondence from those in favour of a scheme.
Only true if ID is actually a Good Thing.
OTHER ISSUES
Some comments were received from people confirming they would only support a scheme if it was compulsory, as this would be
the only scheme that would be worthwhile. However, others commented that a voluntary scheme was better than nothing.
There was a degree of understanding in the responses that the Government may not be in a position to decide and announce the
full details of how the scheme would work right at the beginning and there would be a degree of development as the scheme
went along, without this implying anything underhand.
"I agree that Parliament will have to be asked to approve a card scheme without a
complete description at the time as to the full range of its potential uses. It might be
possible to arrive at a list of subjects that could be covered by secondary legislation,
but even then it would be difficult to foresee all likely eventualities."
Name supplied, Gloucestershire
Facilitating new ways of voting was also mentioned as a potential advantage of a
card scheme.
There was some concern amongst those in favour that the scheme would take too long to implement and would become a "project
destined to be shelved". It was generally felt that the issues a card scheme would address need to be tackled sooner rather
than later.
****