IDPA Questions

[testar77]

My club is going to start up IDPA, and I am excited to get involved. However that means I need to buy another firearm (I know it really sucks right? ) Just for cost reasons, I am leaning towards a Glock. But here's my dilemma, and I am gonna try not to offend anyone I don't know much about what I affectionately call "Plastic Guns" I am kind of a 1911 guy. So I would like some opinions. The reason I am leaning towards the Glocks, is like I said the cost factor, they seem to be pretty reasonable as far as the "Plastic Guns" go. Down the road I may step up to something else if I find I really like IDPA. Right now I am an avid Bullseye shooter, so I am no stranger to competing and shooting, just have never been exposed to IDPA. I have heard mumblings of not being able to shoot all lead in Glocks, is that true? etc... anyway I'd like to hear what some of you have to say on the subject.

Oh yeah, I should add that I will compromise and get a "plastic gun" but it will HAVE to be a .45


Thanks, Toby

 

[bp78]

Lead in Glocks may incite a religious debate. I believe the consensus is don't. For <$100 you can add a Lone Wolf or similar barrel with standard rifling to make it a non-issue. The G21 may be the most division flexible gun made, eligible for SSP, ESP, CDP - uspsa production, uspsa Limited-10 major.

Are you sure you want to swap grip angles from your 1911-background to a glock?

 

[testar77]

Only thing I am sure of right now is that I don't want to spend too much money! well that and it WILL be a .45, so yes if I did go with the glock it would be the 21. BUT if I have to spend another $100 on a new barrel just so I can shoot lead, then I guess that is making them alot less cost effective

 

[Jim Watson]

Your Bullseye Hardball gun would probably do fine at IDPA. Or a cheaper gun of similar layout, like one or another Springfield or RIA.

If you want plastic, the S&W Plastic M&P handles closer to Colt than a Glock. One of our guys here bought a Plastic M&P .45 so it would serve him in all auto divisions as bp78 cites for the G21. An unfortunate occurence in ammo led him to bulge the barrel. He is now back to his Kimber which is unfortunate... I could beat him while the PM&P lasted, but not often with the Kimber.

 

[testar77]

From what I am told, my Bullseye gun will not work. It is not a double action for one, it also doesn't have the neccassary capacity to compete.

 

[Jim Watson]

You are told wrong.
IDPA CDP (Custom Defensive Pistol) requires .45 ACP with a maximum magazine capacity of 8 and any type of trigger action. It is the division intentionally set up for 1911 pattern guns; although other .45s may enter.

 

[bp78]

Single action pistols are the norm for both ESP and CDP divisions.
CDP has a 8rd maximum and the 1911 is the dominate platform in that division.

The only bullseye'ish feature which would knock it out of IDPA would be a bomar-rib style sight.

 

[testar77]

I knew about the CDP class, however I want to compete in the SSP class. Also I believe there is a rule about Barrel being a factory type barrel if replaced. It also says that it needs to be loaded to a cpacity of 8 in the mag and 1 in the chamber.

3. Internal accuracy work (includes: replacement of the barrel
with one of factory configuration, the use of Accu-Rails, the
use of Briley Bushings).

 

[Jim Watson]

Of course, if you are just looking for an excuse to buy a new gun, that will do as well as any. A G21, Plastic M&P, or XD45 would be, as said, very versatile. Load near full power ammo, 8 in the mag and shoot CDP versus the 1911s. Load light, like for a wad gun, 10 in the magazine, and enter SSP versus the G17s, or ESP versus the .38 Supers.

I recently bought a 9mm Plastic M&P and had Dan Burwell do a 3.5 lb trigger job and it will be a nice little SSP. (S&W has a $50 rebate and two free magazine program going on.) But I don't want a non-1911 .45; just a matter of personal preference.


Edit to add: You are getting the Division rules mixed up. An SSP does require DA or equivalent but you get 10 rounds in the magazine (plus one in the chamber to start.)
A "factory configuration barrel" is usually interpreted to mean one of the same length and caliber. Going from Glock "polygonal" to land-and-groove for comfortable loading with lead bullets is considered "factory configuration" if of the same caliber.

 

[testar77]

In the rule book it says for CDP 8 +1, you can use less but are at a disadvantage. which brings up the modification limitations I posted above, it says the barrel replacement has to be factory configuration, so does that mean my match barrel would not be legal? and I am with you as far as having a non 1911 .45, but I will not change anything on my current 1911 to make it work for IDPA, but I can not afford another 1911 at this point. I am not a 9mm fan, so that leaves me with a Plastic .45 Unless I know for a fact that my 1911 would be both legal and not a huge disadvantage as far as cpacity goes.

 

[Jim Watson]

CDP magazine capacity (actually magazine loadout, there is nothing against loading a 12 shot STI with 8 rounds to compete in CDP) is 8+1. SSP (and ESP) capacity is 10+1.

Your "match barrel" IS legal. To quote a usually reliable source (me) "factory configuration" is taken to mean of the original caliber and length. Also shape, IDPA does not approve full length bull barrels. There is no technical inspection of IDPA guns apart from The Box and at some major matches, a weigh-in.

My usual recommendation to new IDPA shooters:
If you own some reasonably suitable gun, just show up, announce yourself, and shoot. You will not be held to the letter of the equipment rules your first match or even several matches until you can tool up. I have seen things like Makarovs and 6" revolvers allowed to be shot for the purpose of letting someone get started.

 

[testar77]

Thanks for all the clarification! Sounds like I can just use my 1911. I do have one other question for you, the grips on my 1911 are the Pachmyr grips that have the wood panels on the sides and wrap around the front only and have the rubber finger grooves. Would those be legal? I would just need to get a decent holster and some new mags, and mag holders.

 

[Jim Watson]

Yes, about any grip is ok unless it is so wide the gun won't go in The Box.
I did have to exchange my old style rubber-over-steel Pachmayrs for nylon backed Fusions to make the weight limit, though. Not something to worry about for a new shooter, not likely to even be checked at a club match.

The Blade Tech injection moulded combo is a good place to start, but note that the holster will not clear the rib on a Gold Cup if that is what your hardball gun is based on.
http://www.blade-tech.com/Combo-Pak-Special-pr-897.html

 

[testar77]

Thanks for all of your help, you have saved me from buying a plastic gun!!! what would be your recommendation for how many mags you need minimum to compete? My BE 1911 does not have a rib, just an STI adjustable rear sight.

 

[Jim Watson]

Pleased to have been of assistance.
When you work on that wish list, the Kimber would be a fine CDP to spare your target gun for bullseye shooting.
The Ruger GP would get you into SSR, and revolver shooting is a hoot; once you have worked on the DA and speedloader techniques for a while.

 

[testar77]

Unfortunately that Kimber isn't an option right now. I will have to use my current 1911 for now. How many mags do you need min. to compete?

 

[Jim Watson]

Three magazines are all that you are allowed on any one string of fire, one in the gun and two reloads on the belt; so that will get you by. You may also have a "Barney" magazine with a few rounds in your pocket to load the chamber with to start the stage with less fumbling, like so: Insert Barney, rack the slide to load the chamber. Remove and pocket Barney, insert a full magazine, holster. The Barney magazine can be some beat up old clunker you do not trust to actually shoot the gun with.

More is better but no sense sinking the money until you are sure you like the game. I normally go to a match with a dozen loaded magazines (So I don't have to manage ammo when I could be studying the course of fire or talking to other shooters.)

Eight round magazines are preferable. The McCormick Power Mag is about the least expensive one to consider. Wilson 47s are well thought of and they are pushing their new and supposedly improved ETM magazine. I know people using the Tripp Cobramag. There are others that I am not personally experienced with. The Metalform 45-797 is very good but looks a little odd because it protrudes a bit. I have some Colt, Shooting Star, and conventional Metalform magazines that have been tuned to my gun by spring and/or follower upgrades, but why bother?

 

[870]

I use a G17 in SSP and have 13 mags, 12 x 10rd'ers and a 33rd'er for ****z and giggles, yes it is pinned to 10rds for my country, and that's used for my stripper (Barney) mag.

Have at least 8 reliable mags so that if you have to reshoot, you're ready.

 

[SR_]

You do not have to go crazy with the number of mags.

I just got back from the Winter Nationals. A young man in our squad had 3 mags. There were a couple of stages where he had to load between stings - was not a big deal.

When you start, I think the ideal number is 4 - one as a barney mag to load the first round, one full mag for the gun and two extras on your belt. If you enjoy the sport, you might want to get more mags.