If I decided to buy a 91/30 Moisen Nagant, what should I buy??

[Tallbald]

These guns have been the topic of so many discussions and threads I don't really know where to begin looking or what to look for. I read about USA made versions, Finnish made models and Russian made models. I read about Hex receivers and round receivers. I read about laminated stocks and solid stocks. I read about arsenal rebuilds and as-issued guns. I see prices from $100 to $200 plus guns. Is there just a quick way to figure out what to look for to get just a good example of a "typical" 91/66. I don't want a collection of them. I have a wonderful 59/66 SKS I believe is a great late model example of SKS's. I'd enjoy I think having a very nice well made and finished 91/30 Nagant to hold, admire and shoot too. And where are the nice M-N's being sold? Thank you. Don

 

[Palehorseman]

The Finns never made a Mosin Nagant rifle. They rebarreled some, restocked some, replaced trigger groups on some and etc..

With that said, the Finn reworks as a rule are some of the best. I have three Finn M39 rifles, one a 1942 Sako barreled and two like new, unissued no names dated 1968.

I also have a prebubbaed 1937 Tula carbine with all matching numbers. I paid $25.00 for it and has one of the slickest actions and best machined milsurp rifles I have ever seen. It is now my favorite dedicated truck gun, here is pic after I got done with it.



If the scope should go south, it has aperture back up sight.

 

[Proinsias]

How much do you want to spend? Typical is usually Russian. Hex receivers are slightly pricier. Some claim it means higher quality, but I wouldn't hold out for one if you find a nice round one, they're mainly a higher collector's value. Laminated stocks tend to be slightly more expensive (we're talking ~$10 for each option). Also look into M44, the carbine with an attached bayonet which is otherwise mostly the same and a similar price. Others like M38 are harder to find. For non-Russian, Finns are higher quality and more expensive, there are lots of models there.

You should know, they don't take scopes well, only scout scopes at the default configuration. The bolt needs to be bent, which you can do if you have the machine skills or there are people only who will buy it. A rifle with a bent bolt, and included scope (repro I think) usually run $400-500.

I usually buy online from AIM Surplus. Old Mosins are C&R, probably not newer US ones. Some sellers throw in some accessories like an original cleaning kit. Prices are up a bit in the last few months.

Ultimately I recommend: buy a cheap Russian one. If you like it (you will), look for a fancier one. And then another cheap one...

Oh yeah, Tula is preferred to Izhevsk for rarity's sake.

 

[LAGS]

If you want the best shooters, go for the Finnish M-27, M-28 or the M-39.
I have two of the M-27's , one stock and one fully custom, as well as a nice collection of different models.
I too prefer the Hex receiver models, and make the bolt handles and side mounted scope mounts for them
The M N has been one of my favorite rifles to shoot and build custom rifles out of since I got my first one in 1976.

 

[M1GarandDeerHunter]

Think Id run with a Finnish one if I could locate a nice one. That was what I got years ago when they were still plentiful. Nice shooter and hunter. No regrets. I bought a few of the russian ones and if you can get a nice barrel they can be good shooters too. They clean up nice, and if you really get serious they can be tuned without a lot of $$$$ to shoot even better. Smith sights makes an adjustable ft. which I am planning to try. Also got a russian sniper actual WW2 not a repro. Oh yeah! These are rifles you either like or dont. Im a liker. Buy lots of good ammo when you get one.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I own a pre-WWII Hex receiver Mosin Nagant with an original wooden stock.

Laminated stocks are nice because they are more stable. Arsenal rebuilds aren't bad because any bad parts were already replaced and like most military rifles the numbers usually don't match. Since my rifle was made in 1932 it wasn't rebuilt after WWI and amazingly enough all the numbers match. I highly doubt it saw combat in WWII because of it's condition. For the most part I wouldn't worry about anything but the barrel and rifling condition when you buy because they are not collector rifles, they are fun shooting rifles.

Actually, we have already over thought buying one! lol

 

[Ash]

"The Finns never made a Mosin Nagant rifle."

The Finns most assuredly made rifles. They did not make receivers and many other parts, such as butt plates or magazine parts, as they had many, but they made rifles. An M39 might have a Russian, French or American-made receiver, but it will have a Finnish-made barrel, front and rear sights, and stock. It may also have bolt parts that were Finnish (my SkY had a SAKO extractor and cocking knob) and the trigger will be either Finnish manufactured or modified.

Even on the broader sense, they manufactured whole rifles at SAKO, Tikka, and VKT (Valmet), and continued to manufacture Mosins into the 1980's. Indeed, the Finns manufactured Mosins far longer than the Soviets (though the most recent Mosin model manufactured was the Czech VZ54/91 from the 1990's).

As far as getting a Mosin, any refurbished Mosin will be as good as another. If you keep an eye out, you can find some that were sniper rifles at one time by inspecting the bolt raceway for welded mounting pins. Even rough wartime examples had good barrels and internals, with the only corner-cutting being cosmetics. As far as cheap shooters, that is how I would go. There are others, of course, the Finnish models are among the best ever made (an M28/76 is the cream-of-the-crop in currently available rifles, the TKIV being the holy grail).

But, you want nice? The best M91/30's were made by Tikka and are around. M39's are superb as well. Indeed, most Finnish Mosins have excellent triggers, excellent stocks, etc. The M28/76 with D166 stamp is about as nice as they come. They are pricey, but man.

The top one is 100% Finnish military (the bottom 100% Czech).

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=175182&d=1353679109

 

[FinnComm]

"The Finns never made a Mosin Nagant rifle."

The Finns most assuredly made rifles. They did not make receivers and many other parts, such as butt plates or magazine parts, as they had many, but they made rifles.

This.

 

[Roadking Rider]

I've got a 1941 MN 91/30 (Izzy). It's been refurbished, and counter bored and re crowned, and I refinished the laminate stock because the finish was flaking off. It's been a fine shooting rifle and worth every bit the $110 I paid for it. I think when it comes to MN's you have to judge each one on it's own. The Hex receivers are said to be more desirable, but I'm not convinced it has a thing to do with the rifles accuracy after all these years. I would look for one that has been arsenal refurbished.

 

[Tallbald]

Thank you everyone! I feel I have some grounding now. Don

 

[BCRider]

I've got two of them as well as a carbine M44.

The first was a '43 Izhevsk. It shoots well enough but the machine work on the receiver and barrel is rushed and the finish looks like a rabid gerbil gnawed it out.

But it shot well enough that I bought a '39 round receiver Tula model a few months later. Being pre-war the fit and finish is MUCH nicer and certainly it's on par with a mid price modern gun's sort of quality for fit and finish.

Oddly enough being a better fit and finish I find that the bolt tends to suffer from the Mosin stickiness more on the '39 than the '43. But the '43 is also loose enough that the steel casings on the milsurp ammo often splits slightly at the shoulder.

Both suffered from the usual Mosin ailment of having too short a front sight pin. I made up replacements using my drill press to file down a 2 1/2 inch finishing nail to narrow the shank to match the original pin and cone the head to fit into the pin base and retain the sight pin. This is actually easier than it sounds and I highly recommend it as a "no fail" metal working project. If you mess up you only "lost" a little of your time and a cheap nail.

If you buy one and get some surplus ammo for it you may not be that impressed with the gun's accuracy. If this happens splurge and get some Privi or other brand commercial ammo and try it again. The SPAM can of milsurp I've got gives me 8 to 10 inch diameter groups at 100 with any of the three rifles. Yet when a buddy and I shot some Privi Partizan ammo the groups shrunk to around 3 inches without even trying hard. And this being with the typical rear sight having that suggestion of a notch which is simply not "old guy eyeball" friendly at all.

The M44 I bought off a buddy that didn't want it because it was "born" the same year as me. And in fact it's sort of started my collection of firearms that were produced in 1953 as a result. So far the collection amounts to one But I'm likely going to pick up an SKS from that year while they are still commonly available for cheap.

 

[LAGS]

With the Mosin Nagant Surplus ammo,
I pull them apart and either reload the casings with the same powder an the 123 gr .311 bullets for hunting, or I salvage the powder and bullets for other calibers like the .303.
Then I take the Primed Brass cases that I have , and load them with cast lead bullets and pistol or shotgun powder.
It sounds like a lot of work, but the cases of Chinese Brass Cased ammo I bought 30 years ago is sometimes hit or miss on the primers.
But the primed cases work great for the cast bullet loads, and no misfires.
It makes great cheap range ammo, and are very accurate.
For Blasting ammo in these times of short supplies, I ran the .310 bullets thru a .308 sizer die and loaded them with some of the salvaged powder into .308 Win casings.
Great cheap ammo, and you are not burning up all your good powder supply, or hunting for bullets every other week.
I think I am down to about 400 of the 2600 of the Chinese ammo I bought years ago, and they dont import it any more.
But it was only $45,00 for 600 rounds at the time.

 

[Palehorseman]

This.

The ATF considers a receiver as the gun, other parts are just attachments.

I do not think it would be a good idea to try and convince the ATF, that a Russian receiver and a Finn barrel constitutes a Finnish made rifle.

 

[ball3006]

Like any rifle, bore condition is the most important. Try to get one that is not counterbored. Finn rifles are the best but they run 300-400 bucks around here. M39s are the top of the line in Mosin Nagant rifles. I get excellent accuracy shooting Privi ammo. It is also reloadable and not corrosive. All surplus ammo is deemed corrosive so you have to clean the rifle after shooting, every time.....chris3

 

[primalmu]

For what its worth, its "Mosin" not "Moisen." Sergei Ivanovich Mosin might not appreciate misspelling his name.

 

[Ash]

Palehorseman, every Finnish Mosin is marked "Finland" by the importer. They consider them Finnish manufactured.

Even so, you do know I can build a rifle using a foreign receiver with enough parts that the rifle (or pistol) is Made in the USA? I have a Springfield Armory P9 pistol with a frame and slide made in Italy, yet the pistol says USA on it.

The ATF considers Finnish-made rifles to be Finnish-made rifles, regardless of where the receiver was made. Heck, many receivers are not marked with an arsenal marking at all - can you prove just where they were made?

As to Mosin's name, it was written in Cyrillic. Any English translation is a translation at best. He certainly never spelled it Mosin

 

[BullSlinger]

I have three Mosins that I purchased several years ago. The one that looks like it saw lots of use and the stock is really beat up shoots the best. Have two carbines that were unissued (at least they look that way). I paid $ 49 for the well used one and $69 or $79 for the others. I also bought a bunch of surplus ammo and probably have 500 rounds left. It is corrosive but sure could not beat the price and does well out to 400 yards (iron sights).

All that being said, just go out and find a rifle in good condition and shoot the thing. You will find out if you enjoy this style of gun. If you like it and decide you want one of the better pieces than by all means go for it. For your first Mosin don't over think it. Just buy one for less than $200 and if you find out it is not to your liking than you can easily sell it and recover what you have into it

I have also spent money on soft point hunting ammo and used my older one for hunting Elk here in New Mexico. IMHO they are great rifles that have done the job for well over a century.

 

[Jlr2267]

I really like the T53 carbine I bought from Buds for $119. The stock was horrendous, looked like it had been in a damp cave for decades then dragged behind a horse. It had all matching numbers and cleaned up (the metal) really well. Has a nice trigger and is a good shooter. Probably the best money I have ever spent on a firearm

 

[LAGS]

If you look at most Mosin Nagants, the serial number and manufacture is marked on the Barrel, not the receiver, with the exception of the recent imports where they put on a second serial number, and importer name.
So, if I change the barrel on an old M N , am I actually distroying or modifying the serial number ?
None of the M N 's that I currently own have second serial numbers.

 

[caribou]

If your gonna use/have just one Mosin, get yourself an M-39 variant from the Finns.

The ONLY thing its missing , in my opinion, is a butt trap cleaning compartment.

Do as you wish, of course, but to leave it and shoot it the way it is and youll never be dissapointed with its accuray or loseing value, history or balance.

 

[Ash]

Mosins have had numbers on their receivers for the last 20 years or so. Earlier ones (the ones with the inoffensive import marks at the end of the barrels) have the serial from the barrel stamped on the side of the receiver. Later ones have it dot-matrix pin-stamped along with import information. The later ones will tend to be unique to the rifle as opposed to restamping of the barrel serial numbers.

The trouble with Mosins is once you rebarrel them, can you prove when the receiver came into country if it lacks marks? Did it ever leave? Many, many of these came in before the 1968 GCA and don't have to have a serial number on their receiver. It would be impossible to prove, without markings, that such a Mosin receiver came in post 1968 considering that if you replace the barrel, you are likely refinishing and sporterizing to a significant extent.

As far as I understand it, the serial number is only a serial number if it is on the receiver. There is no law against buffing out the numbers on a bolt, buttplate, or barrel. If the receiver does not have a serial number, then it simply doesn't have one (I have a shotgun without serial numbers, many guys have simple rifles in the same way).

As to the M39, a major advantage of that rifle is the sights are fully adjustable and really superb. Plus, they were made by the best Finnish gunmakers - Valmet & SAKO and may have barrels from Tikka or even FN.

 

[Onmilo]

If you are buying a 91/30. pick the one that feels right in your hands.
Some guys say get the earlier octagon receiver, others like the round.

I have no preference for either since, like M1 Garands, these guns have seen numerous rebilds and refinishes and chances are, you won't get an original barrel.

So let's talk barrels, this is what I look at myself.

View the barrel bore, look for dark spots, rust, pitting. All good?
Next check the muzzle, No counterbore?
Outstanding, counterbores indicate the barrel is on its last legs, avoid.

Have a muzzle gage handy or do the old bullet drop test on the muzzle.
If the bullet drops to the case neck, or worse yet the case neck gets swallowed too, avoid, the barrel is near gone at the muzzle and probably would be counterbored or the barrel replaced had the gun gone through rebuild check again.

The very best guns have been there done that already and have had replacement barrels installed, then they were packed away for long term storage,

Fresh springs, replacement bolts, new to like new barrels are what you are looking for if you want a shooter.

Here's another little trick if you want flawless cycling of the action. Look for rifles that have the older pre war magazine boxes installed.
The wartime versions were stamped while the early boxes were forged and machined and the older ones stand up and function much better than the wartime ones.
I remember reading that wartime rifles were expected to remain functional for about 96 hours once issued.
Past that, the soldier issued the rifle was usually dead and the weapon lost or destroyed,,, HTH

 

[Palehorseman]

Heck, many receivers are not marked with an arsenal marking at all - can you prove just where they were made?

For Russian MN the factory and date of mfg. is normally stamped on bottom of tang. New England Westinghouse and Remington are marked.

NEW top of tang:




Remington:

 

[Baba Louie]

Shooters AND collectors as well.

Finns for shooters, maybe look for an American (US) made MN for a rarity to have and to hold, when & if you can. (Westinghouse and Remington IIRC)

Some like the Hex, some round, some like 'em long, others short. Milsurp or carefully sporterized. Bayonets attached or not.

...and there's always the Chinese version.

You got choices. A good thing.

 

[Ash]

Pale, at my height, I owned more than 70 Mosins of just about every flavor. I actually owned a US Rifle Model of 1916 of which photos you use.

You state "For Russian MN the factory and date of mfg. is normally stamped on bottom of tang."

That leaves many unmarked. I have seen Tula M91's without markings on the receiver, ditto for Izhevsk and Sestrorysk. I have a New England Westinghouse from Finland so denuded. I have seen Tula and Izhevsk M91/30's without maker marks on the receiver. I have owned a PU Sniper so unmarked.

You cannot prove the maker when there is no mark. You cannot prove date of importation if there is no serial number on the receiver as many Mosins appeared before the GCA. And if a receiver is decidedly Remington, you cannot tell if it is imported or not if there is no import mark on the receiver (and associated import serial number if newer). Remington didn't stamped a serial number on the receiver of the M91 Mosin, neither did Westinghouse. It was not a serialized part.