If I was deer hunting near the border

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I seem to remember that the standard for lethal force being legally used is:

A reasonable person in your situation would have feared for his life or the life of another.

Some states take off the "life of another" part. But I'm not a lawyer.
 
IANAL. However, I think that would fall into the catagory of legal defense of others. But, I would not admit to doing so, as it is likely drug runners you'd be shooting at, and if they found out who you were, you and your family would likely be in danger of reprisals.

For the most part those folks want to avoid being noticed, and will usually only open fire in desperation type of situation. While hunting in 30B last november along the San Pedro near the border my hunting partner came up on his horse and told me to get on. He had seen a group of about 4 guys, all in black with backpacks hiding in the area. We figured at that point it was time to call it day so we just got out of there. We'd been warned that those guys tend to carry Uzi's and the like, so as far as we were concerned discretion was the better part of valor.
 
IANAL - Most states make exceptions for acts taken at the behest of LE. So if you can get them to ask you to contribute to their defense you would be covered.

I also suggest that an M1A chambered in .308 makes a great deer rifle. Many states require that you use magazines that hold no more than 5 rounds. As long as you don't use a scope, you can use 5 round stripper clips for reloading.
 
We had a case in Texas some 20 years back where a deer hunter drove past a Highway Patrol traffic stop. In his rear-view mirror he saw the driver assault the officer.

The hunter stopped, got out his .243, and killed the Bad Guy. Unfortunately, not in time to have saved the officer's life.

The hunter was honored by Texas law enforcement.

I really doubt that any law enforcement folks who were under fire from Bad Guys would object to support...

The caveat is that a gunfight is a gunfight, and it's unwise to wander up all casual and stupid. The LEOs have no ready way of knowing if you're a good guy or a bad guy, and their opponents wouldn't care.

Art
 
As always, it depends on how YOUR state's law is written. Most states firearms and/or concealed carry laws provide for protecting third parties. Most state's laws also contain some provision relating to assisting LEOs, but most of the ones I have read include something to the effect of "at their request" or "when requested."

If your state's laws include such language, maybe you could get a BP honcho to issue a pro-active, blanket "request" that would say something to the effect that the BP hereby requests the assistance of any civilians able to respond in the event of BP agents coming under attack.

But I doubt very much that any BP honcho would be brave enough to sign such a document.

Maybe carry a radio that can transmit and receive on the BP tactical frequency. If you see a situation that appears to merit intervention, call 'em up and ask if they'd like a bit of extra firepower.
 
Other issues:

will other responders mistake you for a bad guy?

how do you know who's right in the original squabble? Impersonation of police isn't unknown, and some cops turn rogue (see Beslan article in SWAT Magazine for examples)
 
Deer hunting in the desert?
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Believe it or not but there are alot of deer out here. Mulies and Whities.

Back on topic.

I have run into a few groups of illegals heading North and every time I kept my distance with the shottie/rifle in the ready position. Its not the immigrants coming North I'm worried about, its the Coyotes (the 2 legged kind with more to loose if caught)

I mark the location on my GPS and speed dial the Border Patrol on my cell.
 
Markheck - WHen I was out scouting ahead of deer season, I took off to head back home kinda late at night (~9PM). As I was heading up High Lonesome (the dirt road that leads back to pavement) I saw a pair of headlights turn onto my road when I was about 1/2 mile from the pavement. When I got up there it turned out to be BP agents coming to check on me. They don't get much traffic on that road after dark (it's a really crappy road - 4 wheel drive is recommended but not strictly necessary most times) and they thought I might have been an immigrant smuggler, or something such. I think they figured out I was a good guy when I rolled down my window and said "How y'all doin'?" Thankfully they didn't ask to search my truck as that probably would have lead to an all night stay there on High Lonesome while they waited for a warrant to come through. I didn't have anything naughty, but I won't consent just becuase I have nothing to hide.
 
Thanks Doc. I've tried to explain that to my wife, with limited success. I'm starting to break through but it can be a slow process at times.
 
Do they ever come out and look for them
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Yes they do. Some time it takes an hour or so but eventually they come. One time I called for a single (the rest were probably hiding in the bush) and within 10 minutes I heard 2 ATV's coming and then the transport truck shortly after.
 
Believe it or not, up in our panhandle there is plenty of illegal border crossing. Canucks bring in their marijuana by back pack through mountain trails as the northern border is mostly unpatroled.

You have to be careful where you go. I our area, more than one meth lab has been, "discovered", by hunters. We also have a large number of uncontroled airstrips in the desert. If you see night landings, I recommend that these folks no see you! No matter where you live it is always wise to be alert.
 
1. Shoot.
2. Enlist the help of the Border Patrol guys you just saved to shovel.
3. Shut up.

;)

Edited to add, "The above 3 lines are all intended to be tongue in cheek. Except #1."
 
The right thing to do is help the patrol

regardless of the law. If the law is an issue, in my not legal opinion you are justified as long as the patrol is taking fire, not as the shooters retreat. Remember the UT Tower shootings? If it wasn't for average citizens pulling out deer rifles it would have been a lot worse...
CT
 
Art sed:
We had a case in Texas some 20 years back where a deer hunter drove past a Highway Patrol traffic stop. In his rear-view mirror he saw the driver assault the officer.

The hunter stopped, got out his .243, and killed the Bad Guy. Unfortunately, not in time to have saved the officer's life.

The hunter was honored by Texas law enforcement.
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Art, is that the case were a local DA tried to prosecute the hunter for shooting across a roadway?
 
I all honesty,I would render whatever assistance I could. I would then explain to the BPs that it would be my preference to leave without leaving a name.
 
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