If only more people carried concealed this could be avoided

Status
Not open for further replies.

leadcounsel

member
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
5,365
Location
Tacoma, WA
Marine on Leave from Iraq Killed
June 02, 2008
Associated Press
On leave from the violence he had survived in the war in Iraq, a young Marine was so wary of crime on the streets of his own home town that he carried only $8 to avoid becoming a robbery target.

Despite his caution, Lance Cpl. Robert Crutchfield, 21, was shot point-blank in the neck during a robbery at a bus stop. Feeding and breathing tubes kept him alive 4 1/2 months, until he died of an infection on May 18.

Two men have been charged in the attack, and Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Bill Mason said Friday the case was under review to decide whether to seek the death penalty.

"It is an awful story," said Alberta Holt, the young Marine's aunt and his legal guardian when he was a teenager determined to flee a troubled Cleveland school for safer surroundings in the suburbs.

Crutchfield was attacked on Jan. 5 while he and his girlfriend were waiting for a bus. He had heeded the warnings of commanders that a Marine on leave might be seen as a prime robbery target with a pocketful of money, so he only carried $8, his military ID card and a bank card.

"They took it, turned his pockets inside out, took what he had and told him since he was a Marine and didn't have any money he didn't deserve to live. They put the gun to his neck and shot him," Holt told The Associated Press.

The two men charged in the attack were identified as Ean Farrow, 19, and Thomas Ray III, 20, both of Cleveland. Their attorneys did not respond to The Associated Press' requests for comment.

Crutchfield knew he was returning to Iraq for another tour of duty, but had hesitated to tell his family until he was nearing the end of his 30-day leave.

He apparently had a troubled family. Holt wouldn't discuss it except to say "his mom and dad didn't raise him, just his grandmother and me." He didn't smoke or drink, she said.

He had attended Cleveland's inner-city East High School, but asked that he be allowed to live with his aunt and grandmother and attend suburban Bedford High School for his final two years.

"He saw his school was in turmoil and asked to get out," Holt said.

Bedford High teachers recalled Crutchfield's smile, his pride in his appearance, his determination to join the Marine Corps after graduation in 2005 and his aspiration to become an architect.

"He was friendly and kind and willing to help out in any way that he could," counselor Yvonne Sims said in an e-mail.

Connie LaNasa, who works in the school office, said Crutchfield was a well-behaved student and went about his school work with little notice.

"He lived out what he wanted to do and that is to be a Marine," LaNasa said.

Faculty members remembered Crutchfield as a top student in the computer design program, an office assistant and participant in the prom fashion show.

After his long hospitalization, an infection broke out a week before he died. "He said it felt like he was getting hit by lightning," Holt said.

When Crutchfield's body was laid out Tuesday in the Sacrificial Missionary Baptist Church, his white military dress hat was tugged down close to his eyes to conceal the skull flap that had been kept open to relieve swelling in his brain.

Marines provided an honor guard at his funeral service and carried the casket to his grave at the Western Reserve National Cemetery near Akron.

He was buried there on the same day as a Vietnam veteran, two veterans from World War II and three from Korea.
 
Two men have been charged in the attack, and Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Bill Mason said Friday the case was under review to decide whether to seek the death penalty.

What's there to decide? Mr Mason better grow a pair and make sure these two pieces of **** pay with their blood.
 
I always wondered whyt attemped murder wasn't the same penalty as murder. It's rewarding you because you failed
 
I don't want to speak badly of the dead, but I fail to see how carrying only $8 in cash makes one less of a target for robbery, unless the potential thief has some kind of X-ray vision device to analyze the contents of your pockets before striking.

Tragic story, and I hope the two perps burn at the stake.
 
Those two animals deserve to be fried! Can't see how there would be much of a decision to make on this one!
 
I don't want to speak badly of the dead, but I fail to see how carrying only $8 in cash makes one less of a target for robbery, unless the potential thief has some kind of X-ray vision device to analyze the contents of your pockets before striking.
Same could be said for carying a gun. Some folks would beleive you are less of a target for having a gun. NOT TRUE you are still the same target to the BG if they dont know you have a gun. A gun is just a tool for SD personal awareness is the best thing you can have for SD. You see things and get a feeling, its time to leave. Its when you dont see things and get a feeling or you cant leave, thats when you need the gun.

In this case there is too little information to know for sure if a gun would have helped him or not. It certianly would not hurt to have it though.
 
I tend to agree with Eric F on this. Not enough is known about the events at the time...circumstances...etc., to know if having a firearm would have stopped it or not.

As to the perps, theres bound to be someone in need of 'volunteers' to hold targets. Oh...about chest high.
 
People are killed in wholesale everyday for less than $8, but yet, since its a Marine, we are now up in arms. Not to be a dick, but maybe we need to worry about the crime itself being how criminals are desparate to rob ANYONE, military service or not. I dont think this justifies more anger than any other crime out there. We should be angry over one mugging, whether they are military or not.

PM me for free kicks in my rear, but this is how I feel when I see stuff like this. I get angry, not at this particular crime, but all crime.

I had a drunk marine home from duty rearend my car a year ago. Clearly drunk and clearly his fault. Cop gave him the benefit of all doubt because the cop was a former marine (literally!). The officer proceeded to scold me for not looking out for others on the road (after giving him my side and nothing more, no yelling or acting like a buffoon). After demanding his card so I could report his inappropriate behavior, he let me go and mailed me the report for insurance. But I had to stand there in the street for over an hour, listening to how I should not press any charges and "let it all go" because "he is a Marine and seved his country". My service in the Army doesnt mean jack, huh?
 
Isn't Ohio the state that has all the laws against providing anyone under 21 a handgun? Not even parents can give their <21 kids handguns? Yet the perps were 19 and 20. Another fine example of gun control at it's finest - keeping the guns only in the hands of criminals and taking away the abilities of law abiding citizens from being able to defend themselves. Personally, I would title the thread - If it wasn't such a PITA for a law abiding citizen to defend themselves maybe this wouldn't happen.

I'm going to go off somewhere and cry now.
 
If they wanted to throw the book at them, in addition to murder and gun charges, "destruction of government property" is a nice charge to add also. In my hometown, a guy in the Army got jumped by a few other guys. Beat him pretty good, recovered. The assailants got charged with substantial battery as well as destruction of government property. All of them are serving 20 year sentences.
 
Part of the purpose of 'concealed carry' is so that perps don't know who is and who isn't carrying. If citizens regularly carry and deter crime, criminals will stop these types of violent crimes because armed citizens will intervene.

Yes, foolish to carry only $8 as some way of avoiding being robbed. I don't get that logic at all. But dead men don't tell tales so we'll never know his thought process.

And yes, fry the bastards. Or better yet, put them in a room full of angry Marines for an hour.
 
Part of the purpose of 'concealed carry' is so that perps don't know who is and who isn't carrying. If citizens regularly carry and deter crime, criminals will stop these types of violent crimes because armed citizens will intervene.

Guns are not a magic talisman.....I say again, Guns are not a magic talisman!

The sooner the gun culture realizes this the better we will be able to deal with things. Criminals will not stop being criminals if everyone is armed. They will merely change their tactics. There was crime centuries ago, before firearms were widely held. In those days a criminal could almost certainly count on meeting an adversary who was armed as well as the criminal. But they still ambushed and robbed people.

Crime wasn't stopped in South Africa, Zimbabwe, or any other place where people armed themselves to protect themselves from criminals as law enforcement broke down. The criminals simply changed their tactics to deal with the new working conditions they faced.

Exactly the same thing would happen here if you issued everyone a 1911 and 3 magazines on their 16th birthday and required them to carry them everywhere. There would still be crime.

Maybe being armed may have helped the victim here. We don't know. But we are being intellectually dishonest when we make statements like: "Part of the purpose of 'concealed carry' is so that perps don't know who is and who isn't carrying. If citizens regularly carry and deter crime, criminals will stop these types of violent crimes because armed citizens will intervene."

Jeff
 
no, guns are not magic. the best deterrant is a severe sentance. shoot a person with a gun in a criminal act, have your body drawn and quartered. something like that! all this pussyfooting around, saying" its not that persons (the murderer) fault, he had a terrible enviroment, or upbringing, or whatever is just a bunch of hooy. and it is partially what is to blame for our society being the way it is. but right now, if this young marine had been allowed to carry a pistol, concealed, or not, it would be very likely he would still be alive.
 
Of course violent crime would decrease if more people were armed. There would be fewer 'repeat offenders' because they'd be dead!

There would be no need for a sentencing determination! No government trial. No incarceration.

If you point a gun at someone with the intent to rob, rape, murder, etc. and someone else kills him, that's the end of the story.
 
no, guns are not magic. the best deterrant is a severe sentance. shoot a person with a gun in a criminal act, have your body drawn and quartered. something like that! all this pussyfooting around, saying" its not that persons (the murderer) fault, he had a terrible enviroment, or upbringing, or whatever is just a bunch of hooy.

I agree with this, although everyone seems to think I'm insane for doing so. I think if you're convicted of cold-blooded murder (such as the kind here) you should be executed QUICKLY (not after decades of appeals), very painfully, and publicly.
 
Of course violent crime would decrease if more people were armed. There would be fewer 'repeat offenders' because they'd be dead!

Experience has not shown that to be true. The criminal will simply shoot first from ambush and the victim will likely not get a chance to use his weapon.

Criminals don't think like we do. You and I would think, "better not rob that guy, he might have a gun." The criminal thinks, "I better just shoot him in the back of the head, or hit him in the head with this tire tool in a sucker punch so he doesn't have a chance to fight back."

If everyone was armed, there would still be crime, it would just be a different type of crime. There has always been crime and there always will be crime. Reducing the number of males between 14 and 28 in the population will do more to lower the crime rate then anything.

Jeff
 
Doesn't sound like a concealed pistol would have saved this guy. Maybe, but probably, he would have suffered the same fate, just a couple minutes sooner.

That's not an argument against CCW by any means. It is, however, an argument for continuing to fight crime in a community.
 
These two attackers should be left to rot in prison for the rest of their lives.

Based on what they said to that poor man, they are cold, heartless killers who don't deserve more than swift justice, and a pair of sex starved 350 lb. former linebackers in the next cell.
 
At least in china they could recycle their organs, for the greater good and all that :evil:

-T
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top