Marshall
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If the choice was between a pro-gun Democrat and an anti-gun Republican...
- Thread starter Lobotomy Boy
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Lobotomy Boy
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Excellent post, Dan from MI. It may just provide the boost I need to get off my fat butt and try to do some good. I2008 started last year. It's time for us to stop the McCain and Rudy "Death Stars". I've been thinking hard about whether I could do more good getting involved in the Democratic, Republican, or Third Party machinery. I live in MN, and because of that I'll probably be more effective if I hook up with the DFL, though working for the Republicans would probably be a lot less frustrating than working with those dingbats.
Lobotomy Boy
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I see the anti-gun Republican has fallen back down below 4 percent. Let's hope that the Republican machinery is giving this issue some thought.
JerryM
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I am also not a one issue voter. My primary issue would cause much argument here, and I won't reveal it.
However, if other issues that I hold dearer than gun rights, were OK with both I would vote for the pro gun Democrat.
At this point in time one who would suit me on the issues I hold most important will never get the nomination in the dem party.
Jerry
However, if other issues that I hold dearer than gun rights, were OK with both I would vote for the pro gun Democrat.
At this point in time one who would suit me on the issues I hold most important will never get the nomination in the dem party.
Jerry
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
The problem with a "proven pro-gun Democrat" is past "proven pro-gun Democrats" like Clinton and Gore. Clinton was NRA endorsed as Governor of Arkansas. Gore was A-rated and endorsed as a TN Senator. If you had looked at the records of either of them up to that point, you would likely not have predicted the eventual policies they ended up supporting.
So now any time I hear the words "pro-gun Democrat", examples like that are the first that pop into my mind. Add to that the continued campaign by the Democrat party to portray itself as "gun-friendly" without actually changing any of the policies that earned them their anti-gun reputation and you are going to need a Democratic candidate with golden pro-RKBA credentials before I would trust them - and I don't see that candidate out there.
So now any time I hear the words "pro-gun Democrat", examples like that are the first that pop into my mind. Add to that the continued campaign by the Democrat party to portray itself as "gun-friendly" without actually changing any of the policies that earned them their anti-gun reputation and you are going to need a Democratic candidate with golden pro-RKBA credentials before I would trust them - and I don't see that candidate out there.
Lobotomy Boy
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You're probably right, BR. Hopefully the Republicans will wake up and put the brakes on the Gulianni-McCain machine. I see the anti-gun Republican has creeped up above 4 percent again, but I wouldn't take to much comfort from that if I was a Republican who supported the AWB.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Well, I am hoping. I won't be voting for Giuliani or McCain and I am very skeptical about the organizational powers of the LP. This would certainly be the time for the Dems to run a solid, pro-gun Presidential candidate if they wanted to maximize their chances.
Lobotomy Boy
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The Washington Post has an interesting article on Guliani today. It doesn't mention guns, but it discusses his primary chances.
Hogwash.Manedwolf said:
Project for the New American Century* (http://www.newamericancentury.org/) is quite neoconservative in the old definition (leftist jews who moved right) and the newer bastardized definition of active & idealistic foreign policy and free-spending at home.
I qualify under neither definition, FWIW.
Calling those set of beliefs (& PNAC) fascist is an expression of ignorance and kool-aid drinking. I'd suggest some reading on the origins & practices of fascism and a thorough brian-scrubbing to those so misinformed.
* I am not a member, don't want to be one, and have serious issues with many of their views. I just dislike outright falsehood more than I dislike PNAC & Bill Kristol.
Lobotomy Boy
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The anti-gun Republican has sunk back down below 4 percent in the poll. I understand that those of us who support 2A issues are a minority, but enough of our views are in-line with those of the general public, particularly that part of the general public inclined to vote for a Republican candidate, that I would take this poll seriously if I were a Republican strategist.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Hardly... the Department of Defense budget for 2006 was $419.3 billion. The Department of Health and Human Services budget for 2006 was $642 billion (about the same as DoD and Homeland Security combined).
Social welfare programs still comprise the biggest ticket item in the U.S. budget, even with an active war going on in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
The discretionary budget for the 2007 fiscal year HHS budget is $75bn, give or take - down from previous years.
But even if you include entitlements (which skews the numbers, not being part of the appropriations package), each department also has 'military' programs that aren't included in the DoD and DoHS budgets.
But even if you include entitlements (which skews the numbers, not being part of the appropriations package), each department also has 'military' programs that aren't included in the DoD and DoHS budgets.
A pro-gun Democrat. And I've voted a straight ticket Republican for a long time now. Would not hesitate to vote for the Democrat. In fact, when I lived in a different part of the state, I voted many times for US Rep. Colin Peterson, Democrat and A+ ranking by the NRA.
SWMAN
Member
Bill Richardson and Mark Warner come to mind when speaking of pro-gun Democrats with Presidential asperations
I voted "pro gun Democrat" in your poll, but I reject the premise. The scenario you are suggesting isn't going to happen.
Even if there were a real pro-gun Democrat out there, as soon as he started running for President he would start altering his message. He would start talking about "common sense gun control" and "keeping guns out of the hands of criminals," and before you know it, he'd be pushing a new assault weapons ban through Congress.
Likewise, by the time McCain or Guliani or some such becomes the Republican candidate for president, they would be toning down their anti-gun stances somewhat.
Generally I will vote for the candidate whose election will do the most to help RKBA. If there ever was a real Democrat RKBA crusader, I'd vote for him/her. When there is not much difference between the candidates' gun stances, I will tend to vote Republican because even if the candidates themselves aren't very different, there are side effects to electing Democrats like Dianne Feinstein deciding who sits on the Supreme Court and Nancy Pelosi determining what bills get voted on and what bills get forgotten at the bottom of the pile.
Oh, and one last thing: when there is a real slathering vicious anti-gun candidate, I will vote for anyone who has a realistic shot at defeating that candidate. I think this is very likely to happen in the upcoming presidential election because we're likely to see Obama or Hilary on the Democrat side, and they are both rabid purulent antis. If Joseph Stalin were running and had the best shot at defeating someone like Hilary or Obama, I'd vote for uncle Joe.
Even if there were a real pro-gun Democrat out there, as soon as he started running for President he would start altering his message. He would start talking about "common sense gun control" and "keeping guns out of the hands of criminals," and before you know it, he'd be pushing a new assault weapons ban through Congress.
Likewise, by the time McCain or Guliani or some such becomes the Republican candidate for president, they would be toning down their anti-gun stances somewhat.
Generally I will vote for the candidate whose election will do the most to help RKBA. If there ever was a real Democrat RKBA crusader, I'd vote for him/her. When there is not much difference between the candidates' gun stances, I will tend to vote Republican because even if the candidates themselves aren't very different, there are side effects to electing Democrats like Dianne Feinstein deciding who sits on the Supreme Court and Nancy Pelosi determining what bills get voted on and what bills get forgotten at the bottom of the pile.
Oh, and one last thing: when there is a real slathering vicious anti-gun candidate, I will vote for anyone who has a realistic shot at defeating that candidate. I think this is very likely to happen in the upcoming presidential election because we're likely to see Obama or Hilary on the Democrat side, and they are both rabid purulent antis. If Joseph Stalin were running and had the best shot at defeating someone like Hilary or Obama, I'd vote for uncle Joe.
45-4-me
Member
In Ohio we have lived with a Republican governor that said he was pro-gun but has made life extremely difficult passing a concealed handgun law. A veto-override happened on Dec. 12th and our Governor-Elect is an NRA "A" rated guy who does support gun owners rights. Check out the link to BFA.
tegemu
Member
I would not vote for anyone on a single issue. My decision would be based on a balance of the candidates stance's on seveal issues important to me.
bogie
Member
Well, I have voted FOR a pro-gun Democrat. And the NRA wouldn't support him, because he didn't have a voting record.
His name is John Ross...
His name is John Ross...
30 cal slob
Member
i am a single issue voter (guns) all the way.
whilst i am a registered republican (with conflicted conservative and liberterian leanings - hah, try to reconcile that), i will vote for a proven pro-gun Democrat over a proven anti-gun republican.
hell, i would vote for a candidate from the "purple people-eating vegisexual bondage party for the free ejaculation of stooltopia" if the candidate supports repealing NFA and supports universal concealed carry (universal, as in, i'm allowed to carry when i go in for a vasectomy at my local post office/airport terminal).
whilst i am a registered republican (with conflicted conservative and liberterian leanings - hah, try to reconcile that), i will vote for a proven pro-gun Democrat over a proven anti-gun republican.
hell, i would vote for a candidate from the "purple people-eating vegisexual bondage party for the free ejaculation of stooltopia" if the candidate supports repealing NFA and supports universal concealed carry (universal, as in, i'm allowed to carry when i go in for a vasectomy at my local post office/airport terminal).
A Democrat that I would relish the opportunity to vote for:
http://www.davekopel.com/
I am pretty much a single issue guns voter, as an indicator of whether or not the representatives that work for me respect my rights.
Eff the moronic labels. What we need to do is make it clear to any and all parties that infringements on the Bill of Rights in general and the Second Amendment in particular will not be tolerated.
http://www.rmgo.org/alerts/2006electionresults.shtml
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