gun-fucious
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i just faxed the above to Armalite
Illinois update
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Arts
Member
IL Gun Owners Finally Wake Up
Daley's gun limits rebuffed
Democratic pull no help in Senate
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By Ray Long and Christi Parsons
Tribune staff reporters
March 14, 2003
SPRINGFIELD -- Despite the Democratic takeover and a turn to the political left in the Illinois Senate this year, the bulk of Chicago Mayor Richard Daley's high-profile gun control agenda went down in flames in a chamber committee Thursday.
Members of the Judiciary Committee killed Daley's proposals to restrict handgun purchases to one a month, require background checks at gun shows and increase the application fee for a Firearm Owners' Identification card. Sponsors still shoring up support decided not to call proposals that would increase the waiting period for handgun purchases and require gun dealers to provide police with sample bullets before guns are sold.
And while the panel advanced a measure banning the sale of semi-automatic assault weapons, senators did so only after the sponsor promised to delay a floor vote until one member's concerns are quelled.
The action disappointed gun-control advocates, who had hoped the Democrats' Senate takeover would give them a boost this spring session. For years the conservative Republican lock on the upper chamber has meant a tepid response to most anti-gun initiatives.
But as Thursday's action made clear, the politics of guns in Illinois is defined by a regional parochialism that transcends traditional party lines. Democrats may be in charge--and giving a hearing to the most progressive social agenda in the Senate's recent history--but that doesn't mean the National Rifle Association is on the ropes.
"Our issue is not necessarily partisan," said Todd Vandermyde, the NRA lobbyist. "Our issue is geographical or principle. All your Downstate Democrats do not share the same beliefs on this issue as the city Democrats. They're conservative and grew up hunting. There are two very different classes within the same party."
At the same time, many lawmakers outside the Chicago area perceive gun-control efforts as attempts by urban officials to export their solutions to crime problems.
"It comes out of ... distrust in the hunting community as well as the rifle association," said Sen. John Cullerton (D-Chicago), a chief advocate of the measures. "It's just a distrust of the people, of what they perceive as the city trying to take away their guns. And the people in the city are faced with different concerns of crime and the use of weapons for crime."
Even Gov. Rod Blagojevich, a Chicago Democrat and a gun-control supporter, acknowledged the geographical divide as he courted Downstate Democrats during his campaign and vowed to oppose fee increases for identification cards.
Further illustrating the party split, two Downstate Democrats voted against parts of the Daley package. Though many prosecutors support gun control, Sen. Bill Haine, a former Democratic state's attorney in Madison County, opposed three major Daley bills.
"The vast majority of gun owners in this state are law-abiding citizens, and these measures are a tremendous imposition on them without the gain to law enforcement," Haine said.
And though many of his colleagues in the African-American caucus usually vote for gun-control measures, Sen. James Clayborne (D-East St. Louis) was against some of the bills.
On the GOP side, Sen. Kirk Dillard (R-Hinsdale) opposed a bill to limit sales to one gun per month per person, which he said was "drawn too broadly" by Daley and prosecutors.
"I understand they're prosecutors and they're zealous," Dillard said. "But they're like the rifle association. Both sides tend to go to the extremes. And it's up to the General Assembly" to balance things out.
Dillard, supplying the key vote needed for approval, won a promise from sponsor Sen. Tony Munoz (D-Chicago) to work out major amendments on the semi-automatic assault weapon ban before the bill is voted on in the full Senate. His demands included excluding restrictions on hunting rifles, members of law enforcement and the military, firearms sporting events, collectors of military weapons and major gunmakers.
"We'll take lots of input from the rifle association," Dillard said. "But they don't control the General Assembly."
Adding to the tension in the room was the heavy presence of secretary of state police, which assigned a security officer to accompany Sen. Iris Martinez (D-Chicago). Martinez complained that dozens of racial and ethnic slurs had poured into her office because of her support for fee hikes and other changes in the identification card rules.
One piece of the mayor's agenda that cleared the Judiciary Committee was a bill to increase penalties for having a secret compartment in a vehicle.
And after failing the day before in a House committee, a bill to require gun dealers to get state licenses in addition to federal licenses won approval and went to the House floor.
Dave Stopher, who said he served as a member of the Air Force and was wounded in the conflict made famous in the movie "Black Hawk Down," said he will have to close his gun shop in Collinsville if the semi-automatic gun bill passes even though most of his customers are police officers and competitive shooters. Stopher said he resented the idea that he "was good enough to take bullets" for his country but that Illinois might restrict gun rights.
Despite the setbacks, the Daley proposals have a better chance of getting a full hearing and passing than at any time in the last decade because Senate Republicans have been deposed and Chicago Democrat Emil Jones is in charge of the chamber.
Daley spokesman Roderick Drew said city lobbyists will keep fighting for passage of the entire proposal this spring, adding, "The session isn't over.
Copyright © 2003, Chicago Tribune
Daley's gun limits rebuffed
Democratic pull no help in Senate
Advertisement
By Ray Long and Christi Parsons
Tribune staff reporters
March 14, 2003
SPRINGFIELD -- Despite the Democratic takeover and a turn to the political left in the Illinois Senate this year, the bulk of Chicago Mayor Richard Daley's high-profile gun control agenda went down in flames in a chamber committee Thursday.
Members of the Judiciary Committee killed Daley's proposals to restrict handgun purchases to one a month, require background checks at gun shows and increase the application fee for a Firearm Owners' Identification card. Sponsors still shoring up support decided not to call proposals that would increase the waiting period for handgun purchases and require gun dealers to provide police with sample bullets before guns are sold.
And while the panel advanced a measure banning the sale of semi-automatic assault weapons, senators did so only after the sponsor promised to delay a floor vote until one member's concerns are quelled.
The action disappointed gun-control advocates, who had hoped the Democrats' Senate takeover would give them a boost this spring session. For years the conservative Republican lock on the upper chamber has meant a tepid response to most anti-gun initiatives.
But as Thursday's action made clear, the politics of guns in Illinois is defined by a regional parochialism that transcends traditional party lines. Democrats may be in charge--and giving a hearing to the most progressive social agenda in the Senate's recent history--but that doesn't mean the National Rifle Association is on the ropes.
"Our issue is not necessarily partisan," said Todd Vandermyde, the NRA lobbyist. "Our issue is geographical or principle. All your Downstate Democrats do not share the same beliefs on this issue as the city Democrats. They're conservative and grew up hunting. There are two very different classes within the same party."
At the same time, many lawmakers outside the Chicago area perceive gun-control efforts as attempts by urban officials to export their solutions to crime problems.
"It comes out of ... distrust in the hunting community as well as the rifle association," said Sen. John Cullerton (D-Chicago), a chief advocate of the measures. "It's just a distrust of the people, of what they perceive as the city trying to take away their guns. And the people in the city are faced with different concerns of crime and the use of weapons for crime."
Even Gov. Rod Blagojevich, a Chicago Democrat and a gun-control supporter, acknowledged the geographical divide as he courted Downstate Democrats during his campaign and vowed to oppose fee increases for identification cards.
Further illustrating the party split, two Downstate Democrats voted against parts of the Daley package. Though many prosecutors support gun control, Sen. Bill Haine, a former Democratic state's attorney in Madison County, opposed three major Daley bills.
"The vast majority of gun owners in this state are law-abiding citizens, and these measures are a tremendous imposition on them without the gain to law enforcement," Haine said.
And though many of his colleagues in the African-American caucus usually vote for gun-control measures, Sen. James Clayborne (D-East St. Louis) was against some of the bills.
On the GOP side, Sen. Kirk Dillard (R-Hinsdale) opposed a bill to limit sales to one gun per month per person, which he said was "drawn too broadly" by Daley and prosecutors.
"I understand they're prosecutors and they're zealous," Dillard said. "But they're like the rifle association. Both sides tend to go to the extremes. And it's up to the General Assembly" to balance things out.
Dillard, supplying the key vote needed for approval, won a promise from sponsor Sen. Tony Munoz (D-Chicago) to work out major amendments on the semi-automatic assault weapon ban before the bill is voted on in the full Senate. His demands included excluding restrictions on hunting rifles, members of law enforcement and the military, firearms sporting events, collectors of military weapons and major gunmakers.
"We'll take lots of input from the rifle association," Dillard said. "But they don't control the General Assembly."
Adding to the tension in the room was the heavy presence of secretary of state police, which assigned a security officer to accompany Sen. Iris Martinez (D-Chicago). Martinez complained that dozens of racial and ethnic slurs had poured into her office because of her support for fee hikes and other changes in the identification card rules.
One piece of the mayor's agenda that cleared the Judiciary Committee was a bill to increase penalties for having a secret compartment in a vehicle.
And after failing the day before in a House committee, a bill to require gun dealers to get state licenses in addition to federal licenses won approval and went to the House floor.
Dave Stopher, who said he served as a member of the Air Force and was wounded in the conflict made famous in the movie "Black Hawk Down," said he will have to close his gun shop in Collinsville if the semi-automatic gun bill passes even though most of his customers are police officers and competitive shooters. Stopher said he resented the idea that he "was good enough to take bullets" for his country but that Illinois might restrict gun rights.
Despite the setbacks, the Daley proposals have a better chance of getting a full hearing and passing than at any time in the last decade because Senate Republicans have been deposed and Chicago Democrat Emil Jones is in charge of the chamber.
Daley spokesman Roderick Drew said city lobbyists will keep fighting for passage of the entire proposal this spring, adding, "The session isn't over.
Copyright © 2003, Chicago Tribune
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
okay, who let the appalachian in to write that Maryland memo?
Riffles?????
Riffles?????
popeye
Member
You know, Riffles, the plurality of rifle. Hence, Pisstols, the past tense of pistol.
Blojoyabitch was talking on my radio today and said Daley was drafting a new wording of the bill to be resubmitted.
Blojoyabitch was talking on my radio today and said Daley was drafting a new wording of the bill to be resubmitted.
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
That's the scary part. I can really visualize the NRA accepting a "compromise" wording and declaring victory!
BTW, Armalite's president was prepared to testify but in the interest of time they didn't let him speak. He showed me his notes. Since 2000 inclusive, Armalite has been tracking the number of trace requests they get. As I understand it, guns are traced each and every time they're found in connection with a crime, though I could be wrong. Anyway, since 2000, Armalite has had THREE traces run. According to the crime lab personnel running the traces, every single one has been run because the guns were recovered as stolen property--not one because the gun was used in a crime.
BTW, Armalite's president was prepared to testify but in the interest of time they didn't let him speak. He showed me his notes. Since 2000 inclusive, Armalite has been tracking the number of trace requests they get. As I understand it, guns are traced each and every time they're found in connection with a crime, though I could be wrong. Anyway, since 2000, Armalite has had THREE traces run. According to the crime lab personnel running the traces, every single one has been run because the guns were recovered as stolen property--not one because the gun was used in a crime.
Arts
Member
They will be back. Like school administators after a tax increase they just keep coming until they get what they want. The only hope for gun owners in IL is that Daley chokes on a Polish.
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
I'd love to have five minutes alone with the retarded slobbermonkeys who made those calls to Martinez, but I do feel compelled to point out that she admitted that there was only one "threat." That caller threatened to spit on her during the hearing, not to do her any actual harm. It was still low, uncivilized, and filthy, but doesn't she make it sound like a death threat? I wonder why?
J Miller
Member
When your constantly beaten down with bad news, any good news is worth savering.
I'm glad we did as well as we did. But I'm expecting four years of constant anti gun bills. I doubt that the Illinois government will get anything much done because of this.
J Miller
Member
I have a question from a different perspective. Now please don't anybody call me a racist, this is an honest question. For those who were there, how many races were represented? Both for and against the bills?
In many discussions about gun laws it is the minorities who are purported to be anti-gun. Yet if one looks real close they are amonst the largest groups of crime victims too.
Since these anti-gun bills come straight from Crimecago, 'er Chicago I was courious.
I could'nt be there due to illness, but my wife and I got a bunch of calls in.
In many discussions about gun laws it is the minorities who are purported to be anti-gun. Yet if one looks real close they are amonst the largest groups of crime victims too.
Since these anti-gun bills come straight from Crimecago, 'er Chicago I was courious.
I could'nt be there due to illness, but my wife and I got a bunch of calls in.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Well, that'll sure keep Illinois safe from criminal predation!
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
You should have heard the logic. You see, the people who build these "traps" are usually caught because they have narcotics or illegal guns in them. Narcotics and illegal guns are felonies, and the "trap" charge was only a misdemeanor.
Therefore, prosecutors have a habit of dropping the misdemeanor and concentrating on the felonies. The result of this is that people aren't being charged for the "traps," although we're talking about people who are already going to serve years for whatever was IN the "trap." But they can't have that, since it makes it almost like the law is stupid and unnecessary (imagine that.) Therefore, the penalty must be increased three jumps up to a felony so that it will be charged along with narcotics and gun charges!
I know I feel safer.
Therefore, prosecutors have a habit of dropping the misdemeanor and concentrating on the felonies. The result of this is that people aren't being charged for the "traps," although we're talking about people who are already going to serve years for whatever was IN the "trap." But they can't have that, since it makes it almost like the law is stupid and unnecessary (imagine that.) Therefore, the penalty must be increased three jumps up to a felony so that it will be charged along with narcotics and gun charges!
I know I feel safer.
six 4 sure
Member
For a state that is $4 BILLION in debt (and the number is getting higher every day) I would think the Governor/Senate/House would have more important things to worry about besides gun control. But, I guess this is a good time to sneak things in without many looking.
I've lived all but the last two years of my life in Illinois, and this kind of stuff just makes me sick. I really want to move back. All my family and friends are still in Southern Illinois, but I don't think I'll be moving back anytime soon.
Six
I've lived all but the last two years of my life in Illinois, and this kind of stuff just makes me sick. I really want to move back. All my family and friends are still in Southern Illinois, but I don't think I'll be moving back anytime soon.
Six
Doesn't sound good to me!!!!!!
News from the front:
1. FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT: Thanks to the hundreds of freedom loving Americans who journeyed to Springfield on Thursday to stand up for what is right. You are sterling examples of what molded our nation's greatness. You stood in stark contrast to the filthy scum in Springfield who seek to destroy our Constitution. You saw evil in action on Thursday. Through your strength, the righteous shall prevail.
2. YOU WERE BETRAYED: Despite thousands of phone calls of protest, SB1195 - the Daley Gun Ban and Confiscation Bill passed out of the Senate Judiciary Committee by one vote. That vote was cast by Kirk Dillard - a former staunch pro-freedom senator. With that one thoughtless vote, Dillard may well have made felons out of several hundred thousand Illinois citizens. What sort of leverage did Daley use against Dillard? Is Dillard the next "Al Salvi?" There is a story behind this...and you're going to hear it.
3. NEW ANTI-BLAGODALEY CAMPAIGN LAUNCHED: With the help of some good friends, the ISRA has launched a new southern offensive against Blagojevich and his supporters. This early action is part of our strategy to achieve campaign overmatch in key central and southern legislative districts in the next two election cycles.
4. THE WEEKEND AHEAD: With this being St. Patrick's Day weekend, Daley and his pals will be busy singing, dancing and nursing hangovers. Meanwhile, we'll be formulating next week's battle plans in the war to salvage what little of your freedoms you have left. Stay tuned...more to come.
5. MANY THANKS: We'd like to acknowledge the support we received this week from the many friends who posted our alerts on Internet bulletin boards and web sites. We were very gratified to see support pour in from such diverse corners of America. The ISRA web site set new records for hits and bandwidth moved. Thanks! We hope that our friends will continue to post these updates to those bulletin boards for the next several weeks. We hope that we'll be chronicling your victory over the immoral Daley Gun Grabbing Machine rather than the defeat of that which made America great.
GOD BLESS AMERICA...GOD BLESS YOU
News from the front:
1. FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT: Thanks to the hundreds of freedom loving Americans who journeyed to Springfield on Thursday to stand up for what is right. You are sterling examples of what molded our nation's greatness. You stood in stark contrast to the filthy scum in Springfield who seek to destroy our Constitution. You saw evil in action on Thursday. Through your strength, the righteous shall prevail.
2. YOU WERE BETRAYED: Despite thousands of phone calls of protest, SB1195 - the Daley Gun Ban and Confiscation Bill passed out of the Senate Judiciary Committee by one vote. That vote was cast by Kirk Dillard - a former staunch pro-freedom senator. With that one thoughtless vote, Dillard may well have made felons out of several hundred thousand Illinois citizens. What sort of leverage did Daley use against Dillard? Is Dillard the next "Al Salvi?" There is a story behind this...and you're going to hear it.
3. NEW ANTI-BLAGODALEY CAMPAIGN LAUNCHED: With the help of some good friends, the ISRA has launched a new southern offensive against Blagojevich and his supporters. This early action is part of our strategy to achieve campaign overmatch in key central and southern legislative districts in the next two election cycles.
4. THE WEEKEND AHEAD: With this being St. Patrick's Day weekend, Daley and his pals will be busy singing, dancing and nursing hangovers. Meanwhile, we'll be formulating next week's battle plans in the war to salvage what little of your freedoms you have left. Stay tuned...more to come.
5. MANY THANKS: We'd like to acknowledge the support we received this week from the many friends who posted our alerts on Internet bulletin boards and web sites. We were very gratified to see support pour in from such diverse corners of America. The ISRA web site set new records for hits and bandwidth moved. Thanks! We hope that our friends will continue to post these updates to those bulletin boards for the next several weeks. We hope that we'll be chronicling your victory over the immoral Daley Gun Grabbing Machine rather than the defeat of that which made America great.
GOD BLESS AMERICA...GOD BLESS YOU
Ryder
Member
beyond insanity
"the panel advanced a measure banning the sale of semi-automatic assault weapons"
"the panel advanced a measure banning the sale of semi-automatic assault weapons"
Someone needs to mention that the ISP has just bought 145 evil black Bushmaster semi automatic assualt weapons with flash hiders and collapsible stocks and they are considering allowing troopers to purchase their own.
I am all for patrol rifles. I use one myself. But I think it's kind of ironic that we're arming the State Police with them at the same time we're trying to ban them.
Jeff
I am all for patrol rifles. I use one myself. But I think it's kind of ironic that we're arming the State Police with them at the same time we're trying to ban them.
Jeff
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Thanks, Jeff, I did not know that.
J, the pro-gun side was, predictably enough, mostly male, white and middl-aged and older. Probably not a good long-term trend. I believe I was the youngest there, but that's just my guess based on the looks of those who attended. I'd guess the next youngest were a few guys in their thirties.
There were a few black folks in our crowd, but not many.
Of course, Daley's bills were presented by a rainbow of legislators, black, Hispanic, and probably, if I knew enough to figure out the accents, a mixture of several different types of Hispanic, like Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, etc. It would fit what we know about the machine's racial politics. Then again, it's easy to appear diverse and sensitive if you're allowed to cherry pick.
J, the pro-gun side was, predictably enough, mostly male, white and middl-aged and older. Probably not a good long-term trend. I believe I was the youngest there, but that's just my guess based on the looks of those who attended. I'd guess the next youngest were a few guys in their thirties.
There were a few black folks in our crowd, but not many.
Of course, Daley's bills were presented by a rainbow of legislators, black, Hispanic, and probably, if I knew enough to figure out the accents, a mixture of several different types of Hispanic, like Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, etc. It would fit what we know about the machine's racial politics. Then again, it's easy to appear diverse and sensitive if you're allowed to cherry pick.
Gray Peterson
Member
Well, if I were an Illinois resident, I would have showed up with a Pink Pistols T-Shirt and rainbow freedom rings necklace to add some diversity to the crowd...
Yes, I know this isn't a rather funny time, but you guys need a Pink Pistols in IL, bad.
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
I have a "Bash This!" shirt, but I came in a coat and tie in accordance with Senate decorum rules. Turns out I didn't need to bother. When I was a reporter they told us that when we worked in the Senate we could be ejected for not wearing a coat and tie, but I was assigned to a House room and never saw the Senate.
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