I'm a new guy: Questions regarding CCW/training.

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ryan in maine

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Feb 18, 2006
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Presque Isle, ME
First questions... I've been recommended to start with a .22, and that makes sense. It's the most financially-minded selection (as far as practicing goes), the easiest handling, and I don't personally know anyone who shoots who doesn't own one. But how detrimental to my learning progress would starting out with a 9mm honestly be? I don't understand how starting with a more powerful caliber would hinder me from learning proper protocol. I ask, because $250-400 for a .22 is still a good chunk of money for me, seeing as I'm only 21 years old. Right now, in my mind, it makes more sense to start with the 9mm since I could eventually carry what I learn to shoot rather than having to purchase a new firearm. So, again, how detrimental to my learning progress would starting with a 9mm be?

Next questions... How am I going to learn to safely use a handgun? So far, I haven't been able to find any handgun courses anywhere near me. However, in order to apply for my carry permit, I must provide proof of handgun safety knowledge on my application. The nearest sure thing--an NRA certified course--is 5 hours south of me. There is the possibility of courses being offered 3 hours south of me also, but I cannot yet verify. So am I seriously looking @ having to go 3 to 5 hours south in order to qualify for my permit? Is there no other way? I'm pretty sure there is a range or two within an hour of me, if that helps my case any. There is a healthy population of hunters in the area and I know rifle and shotgun hunter's safety courses are available relatively near-by. Again though, nothing for handguns to my knowledge. How common is it for instructors to travel through their state to teach in other areas?

Thanks for any and all help you folks can offer me! I'll check in tomorrow to respond to everyone.
 
Nothing wrong with 9mm as you know the advantages of a .22 and you decided against them. (recoil and noise are not a big problem IF you use proper ear/eye protection)
IMO go to a couple local gun shops and ASK for options on training. Don't go with (Old Mike who shoots real good) and will teach you everything you need to know for a 6-pack of brews. :(
Most folks have their basic safety idea. Mine is "picking Cotton" (not a racial slur)
"Keep your cotten picken fingers off the cotten picking trigger until your cotten picken sights are on the cotten picking target"
Other use Booger hook,and other "more" colorful terms. Safety is not something you can teach over internet.
Hints on sights/trigger pull/etc maybe.
IMO drive the 3 hrs or more and take a good class. spring for some one on one instruction if you need to. Ask who is a good teacher. (not who won the last five matches)
 
ryan in maine said:
First questions... I've been recommended to start with a .22, and that makes sense. It's the most financially-minded selection (as far as practicing goes), the easiest handling, and I don't personally know anyone who shoots who doesn't own one. But how detrimental to my learning progress would starting out with a 9mm honestly be? I don't understand how starting with a more powerful caliber would hinder me from learning proper protocol. I ask, because $250-400 for a .22 is still a good chunk of money for me, seeing as I'm only 21 years old. Right now, in my mind, it makes more sense to start with the 9mm since I could eventually carry what I learn to shoot rather than having to purchase a new firearm. So, again, how detrimental to my learning progress would starting with a 9mm be?
Click to expand...

Starting with a 9mm is fine, but you should spend some time perfecting your gun-handling skills (not the same as shooting/marksmanship) before you start to carry regularly. But please, by all means start your CCW training now. With good instruction you'll learn much quicker than by the self-taught method, trust me I know.:eek:

JH
 
Most of the reason that people recommend a .22 for beginners is that a .22 has practically no recoil which helps beginner aviod develop a flinch that is caused by anticipating and trying to correct for recoil. If you do start to develop a flinch just do alot of dry firing until you have a smooth constand trigger pull without any jerking. One good technique is also to use a few dummy rounds between live rounds.
 
I think 9mm is a good way to go

this way you will have a decent caliber for home defense as well as ammo that is cheaper then .40 S&W and .45ACP...I still don't own a .22!
( I started with a nine though)

I have .357, a .40, a .223, a .308 and a .25acp...now I have to go buy a 10/22...thanks alot:mad: :neener: :evil: :D
 
If funds are available why not both? A Glock 19 with a 22lr conversion kit would make a lot of sense. You could practice trigger work and basic firearm skills with the 22lr set up (with a little 9mm practice) then transition to 9mm work.

Another possibility would be to buy a nice 357 magnum revolver like the Ruger GP100. You could shoot 38 special loads for practice, and carry with 357 magnum when the time comes. The nice thing about a revolver set up is that it tends to be cheaper since you won't be buying spare magazines and such. Target shooting 38sp can be very rewarding.

As an aside, you can buy books to learn about CCW. No it won't satisfy your application requirements, but extra knowledge is never a bad thing.
 
Mad Chemist/JH:
I have been to that link previously. The problem is Augusta is 4-5 hours south of me (depending on who's driving). Randallstown is a new listing, but I have no idea where that is. All my searches for it only yield results in Maryland. Thanks for replying. I respect the power of your Google-Fu! :D
Could you elaborate a little on what constitutes "gun-handling skills" for me? Is that in the same breath as familiarity with your firearm?

Larry Minn:
I will make sure to get proper ear and eye protection before I go near a range.
Haha, your safety structure should stick with anyone. Would you recommend I ask my instructor to "cotton-pickin" instruct me, to illustrate my willingness to learn? :D
I will drive the 3 hours if it comes to that. I admit, however, I would prefer not to have to venture so far. Maybe I can get someone to provide me company in the car for that 6-pack of brews. :eek: Thanks for replying.

Zen 21 Tao:
I'm confident I can overcome any flinch that results in starting with a 9mm fairly quickly. Are dummy rounds like snap caps, or is there a difference? Thanks for replying.

Gunsmith:
That is the same thinking I have going right now. It sounded like a good compromise of recoil, affordability, and defense.
Sorry to play the "everyone's-got-one" card on you like that though! :neener: I now realize it was a bad generalization and borderline stereotype. Thanks for replying.

Gazpacho:
If funds are available, I'll cosign with you and say I'd like both. Funds could prove to be a problem though. Thanks for the heads up on the Glock and conversion kit. I was not aware .22 conversion kits were available.
I have not ruled out starting out on a revolver. Right now, I'm thinking against it based on capacity capabilities. If it turns out to be more economic for me, I'd definitely be willing to go that route. .38's would be a good learning platform. I must admit that I am majorly leaning towards a semi-auto though. BUT, my granpa has a .22 revolver that I could see myself prying away from him. So it's a definite possibility. Sorry if I just rambled.
One of the books I've heard mentioned is Massad Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme", I believe. Would that fall in the category of a CCW book or is it more general? Thanks for replying.

Again, thanks for taking the time out to help me, guys. It's much appreciated. :)
 
gazpacho said:
If funds are available why not both? A Glock 19 with a 22lr conversion kit would make a lot of sense.
Click to expand...

I was thinking CZ 75B with a .22 Kadet conversion kit.
 
RYAN IN MAINE

I DON'T KNOW THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS IN MAINE. HERE IN TEXAS, IF YOU QUALIFY FOR YOUR CCW (CHL) WITH A "REVOLVER", THAT'S ALL YOU CAN CARRY CONCEALED. QUALIFY WITH A SEMI-AUTO, AND YOU MAY CARRY EITHER..REVOLVER AND SEMI-AUTO.

IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO CHECK MAINE'S CCW LAWS LEST YOU LIMIT YOUR CARRY OPTIONS.

TAKE CARE
 
Starting up!

I am 21 as well and making a decision about what gun to purchase on your first round can be a little troubling. My father is an avid collector so I just took his advice about something that I would most surely carry at all times, unfortunately that was my only concern at the time. Knowing that grudginly he suggested a kel-tec P3AT. It's a .380, so it doesn't pack a large punch put I carry it with Mag-safe rounds to make up for the size. The problem was after having the thing for about two weeks I realized that there was much more information that was being explained at the time - and I just heard what I wanted to. Small, carry all the time.

I can't take this thing out and run a few hundred rounds through it on the weekends, nor do I like any of the "pocket holsters" or "pocket slippers" available for it. Right now I just put a little accessory clip on it and it will attach to the inside of my pocket's on my jeans. It is nice to know you have it when you need it but - like almost anyone will tell you, if you don't want to carry a .45, at least carry a 9mm.

A few weeks later after searching through all sorts of review sites and message boards I decided to go with something a little bigger, Glock 19. Now, not only does it feel like a gun in my hand rather than a little stone - I can take this gun out and use it, all the time. I figure that at some point (after my tax return) I will go out and purchase a Glock in a higher caliber but for now this gun has really been a blessing. It's suprisingly easy to carry - tshirt/button up in a Blackhawk CQC holster with autoretension. The gun is solid, and there are so many accessories out there that you can purchase and install in 30 minutes or so, not to mention it serves as a great home defense weapon as well. I purchased the M6 illuminating laser, and a factory 33 round magazine that I can keep at the ready by the nightstand (no children of course).

I have a 1911 style Israeli Arms (IMI) .45 as well - thought I don't really care for it. You just have to find a gun that feels right in your hands. I used to hate the idea that they were made with polycarbonates and I also thought that Glocks didn't have much visual appeal but after giving in a fair chance and reading nothing but praise I walked out with it the same day. You just need to take some time, but don't buy anything that can't penetrate a leather jacket just in case. Plus, if you don't like dealing with the recoil (part of the reason I don't -yet- like the 1911 style .45's) a 9mm is a good balance.
 
Good stuff here. MIght I add. Don't go out and buy a gun. (herasy I know)
Go to gun range and let RO know you are new shooter and considering. He/she MIGHT know of a person who is good instructor. AND in my area if they find a possible new shooter (who acts nice/looks ok) the RO will ask some regulars if they would chat with a new guy.
I got to shoot a WIDE variety of firearms that way. I got to shoot one of the first US man barettas and Glocks back in early 80s. (Ok both were NOT new but to my area they were) :)
Try out revolvers/variety of pistols. Find what fits your hand/feels right and THEN buy it. I was very lucky as I go (loaned) a .25 auto, a Ruger 357 mag, a Essix 1911, as well as a buckmark .22.... These were month long loans. I am not counting being allowed to run a mag thru them at range. Fingers would fall off. :) Being polite, showing a interest and listening will help a lot. BTW the folks who loaned were people I knew from before very well.
 
Antsi:
Thanks for replying with another suggestion. Is the CZ metal?

Beaucoup Ammo:
Thanks for replying and bringing that to my attention. I hadn't really heard that scenario discussed yet. Hopefully I can qualify with and carry either. :confused:

Sheep:
Thanks for replying. It sounds like your father was a good resource. You're lucky.
How would you describe the difference in recoil between your Glock 19 and your 1911 in .45? And is the recoil in your Keltec worse than in your Glock and 1911 despite the smaller caliber?

Larry Minn:
Thanks for replying. Are all ranges manned by RO's? And will all ranges have @ least a modest range of firearms to rent? I ask 'cause around here I wouldn't be surprised to find a field marked like a driving-range in the middle of nowhere with a big sign reading "Ye Gun Shootery" and have that be the range that shows up on the NRA search, haha. :neener:

Wdls Guy:
Thanks for replying. I have not contacted any clubs yet. They all seem to operating out of the southern part of the state an hour or two north of Boston and I'm way up north only an hour or so short of the Canadian border. If you think I might be able to pick up a trail contacting some state clubs I'd most certainly give it a shot though. Guess it couldn't hurt. :cool:

El Tejon:
Thanks for replying with a nice welcome! I promise you I'll seek all kinds of knowledge here from you guys, don't worry about that. ;) I'll just hope you folks don't get tired of me.
That's a good bit of advice by the way--"Let your software select your hardware"--I like that. :D
 
Ryan, as a last resort you might try to approach your local PD and see of they have a certified instructor who might be willing to work with you.

BTW, my wife and I were up there in our 18 wheeler a couple of yrs ago...delivered some furniture to a nice store on the main street. We parked for the night in that big gravel parking lot near the court building and the river. What a pretty town with really nice folks! Went for a long walk along the river and enjoyed lobster rolls for dinner. Then we went up to Madawaska and picked up a load of paper bound for Indiana. The huge piles of firewood in nearly every dirveway (in August) probably scared us out of moving up there, but it's one of the places I'd like to visit again (in the summer).

Good luck!
 
Welcome to THR! :)

One thing is for sure, while you might be able to get away without standard NRA type handgun training, it is well worth the drive down. The time you spend in the course will really pay off in confidence, safety and enjoyment. I'd invest the time.

I'd offer to let you shoot my stuff, I have a medium sized collection, but I'm near Portland which is sort of a hike.

-James
 
I'm confident I can overcome any flinch that results in starting with a 9mm fairly quickly.
Click to expand...
The problem is you won't know you have a flinch. Someone else will notice that for you. Also a flinch becomes a habit and that's why it's difficult to get rid of. How can you be confident you can get rid of a habit that you have never had before? Those are easy words to say, but a lot harder to put into practice.
 
ryan in maine said:
Zen 21 Tao:
I'm confident I can overcome any flinch that results in starting with a 9mm fairly quickly. Are dummy rounds like snap caps, or is there a difference? Thanks for replying.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. A snap cap has spring in the bullet casing to absord force of firing pin hitting synthetic primer (see image below). A dummy round can be a spent round (w/fired primer) reloaded with another bullet but no powder.

B0009TRX7U.01-A3AZEU1266GEG2._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
 
Moon Doggie:
Thanks for replying. I will head to the PD tonight and report back. I did inquire about training when I went there to pick up my application but I didn't think to ask about their own instructor.
I'm glad you enjoyed the Presque Isle and Madawaska area. I know exactly the place you spent the night by the court house and across the street from the river. The name of the river is the Presque Isle Stream (fitting, isn't it?). If you check this map out, you can see you were parked about where it lists "Boat Ramp".
Don't be too alarmed by the firewood. We get 3 or 4 months of really beautiful weather that makes everything worth while. Although, yes, we can get temps in the 30's year-round, especially up towards Madawaska and in isolated parts of the forest. If you're not big on fall/winter/early spring activities, I will highly recommend this area from late spring right through to early fall. It's really some untouched beauty. :)
Thanks for the luck!

Jamz/James:
Thanks for replying. I don't REALLY mind the driving down for training part. It just makes me wish we had something like that in the area.
Portland is a good hike indeed but I have family and friends there and in Scarborough, so if I'm ever on my way down and need some practice I'll shoot you a PM. Probly wouldn't be a bad idea anyway! My collection is @ +0, not doing too well yet. :eek:

Majic:
Thanks for replying. I thought a flinch would be something I'd be able to conciously feel myself doing. I guess I'm pretty wrong tho, hey? I promise I wont take that for granted now. Are you recommending I start with a .22 'cause of this?

Zen 21 Tao:
Thanks for replying with that explanation. I see the difference clearly now. Is there one you recommend over the other or will they both get you where you need to go? A snap cap sounds more economic to me.
 
ryan, I mean to say seek knowledge by seeking firearms training, not from THR. You have to put in blood, sweat and tears and you have to travel. However, remember, three days with the Master are worth three years training alone.:)

This gun, that gun or that gun over there will matter less and less as your education level becomes more and more.
 
The old penny on the barrel trick while dry firing will help show any flinches.
A .22 lr is a great thing to have around (I have several) followed by .38 spl's, 9mm's and .45's.

CZ's are all metal, reliable and relatively inexpensive when compared to their shootability and other 9mm designs. But you can get a .22 conversion kit for them, as you can w/ Beretta/Glock/Taurus... each being lighter due to polymer or alloy frames.

There's also at least one other member here at THR who hails from P.I. ME... and might be worthy of looking up... or not, since internet meetings face to face may not be a desireable thing to some.

'Twere I 21 again (don't go there Baba Louie), I'd probably do something foolish like buy a 1911 Norinco (actually, mine was a Colt), buy a few books/videos on-line, a case of 230 gr ball ammo and get real familar with my new toy. Or maybe a Ruger MkII and 5 or 6 bricks of ammo and do the same. Or maybe a Taurus 92/99. (I did all three many many years ago, but not in that particular order... somewhere in there was a S&W 586 too)

http://www.paladin-press.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=8

Once I felt I knew a little about shooting, I'd take a class or three. Buy a Good holster/belt. More ammo.
 
El Tejon:
Thanks for replying. Of course I'll put in the work. But you've got to admit, these forums can be a pretty good source of information. I mean, you're here ain't ya? ;)

Baba Louie:
Thanks for replying with the info and link. If I run into the other fella from PI I'll say hello. Since he's from PI and a member of THR I'd assume he's friendly.
Would you recommend your patented "21 Routine" to me or will you cosign with the .22 or 9mm starting point? Haha. Also, which books might you recommend?

I should be searching for this stuff on THR on my own shouldn't I? :eek:
 
Ryan. PM me with your contact information. I'm in Presque Isle too, and can probably go over some options with you for gun selections. I can also ask around and see what I can find for local handgun safety courses for you. Most of my experience is with the Southern Maine shooting community, but I do know a few folks in town that might have some answers for you.

I do know that a handgun safety course used to be offered in Houlton. My mother and father took it to get their permits. That was a while ago though, but I'll try to see if it's still available and who teaches it.
 
Marine Tech:
Thanks for replying. I don't have many resources personally. I am going to contact some Maine state firearm clubs and see if anything comes up around here. The one name I've heard so far is Ivan Shapiro whom I believe is our friendly neighborhood machine gun dealer, but I haven't contacted him yet.
PM incoming.
 
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