I'm About To Give Up

[warman]

Well, I took my 19-4 out again today. I am not improving. The accuracy just isn't there. It's fun shooting a powerful 357 mag but as far as using it for anything else, I'm just not accurate enough with it.
Now my XD, I can shoot the center out of the target at 10 yards but the revolver just isn't cutting it.
I've tried different ammo (38sp, +p & 357mag) grips, stances, trigger pulls (I only shoot DA by the way), site alignment and I'm still spraying them all over and in patterns I can't explain. 1 will be below 6 o'clock most are above 12 o'clock then there are the ones to the side.
Very frustrating.
Here's a couple of examples:

 

[kanook]

get some 158 grain SWC, put that thing in a rest and shoot it SA. Or let somebody else shoot it.

How are you fingering the trigger?

Put an empty shell in it with the others loaded spin the chamber and shoot. When you get to the empty shell you will see if you're flinching. You may think you're not but you might.

 

[KBintheSLC]

Be patient... it takes time to get good with a DA revolver. I would get a bunch of mild .38's like some 148g wadcutters, then go to a range where you can shoot from the bench. Shoot from some sandbags or something and try to really focus on your trigger work. Also, dry practice helps a lot... it will help you figure out if/how you are flinching.

Hang in there... it will come.

 

[18DAI]

I would concur that patience is everything, well....that and lots of practice.

The 19-4 and 158 grain rounds is a tack driving combination in my experience. You may want to walk before you run with this 19-4. Try some 38 or 38+P loads. When you are sending them into 1.5" at 15 yards move back up to the 357 loads.

Try dry firing practice at home. With the 19-4, check the cylinder is empty, then check it again...seriously, I always check two times.

Then pick a spot across the room, and sight in on it. Dry fire in double action twelve or eighteen times. Notice how your sights are moving less around shot 14?

Now place a dime on top of the barrel rib and repeat. If the dime falls off, start over! Do this every night for a week and then off to the range for live practice. Let us know how it goes. Hope this helps. The joy of accurate double action revolver shooting is well worth the effort, for me.

Good luck! TJ

 

[KyJim]

In addition to the previous posts, you may want to consider investing in a trigger/action job. The 19-4 was made in the "lawyer era" where heavy double action triggers are the norm. A lot of people only shoot revolvers single action so even a used SW might have a double action that needs to be shot a lot. It will smooth out over time but may not lighten up or smooth out as much as needed.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

The XD is a piece of cake. The art of firing a handgun is found in shooting a double action revolver well.
It's the difference between fast food and gourmet. After you can shoot your DA revolver well, you'll probably be a much better shot with anything than most people you know.

 

[pps]

If the triger/action job doesn't help, I'd video tape myself dry firing and live firing at the range. Objectively examine if you are either flinching, pushing the shot, burying your trigger finger in to deep...ect.

Do not give up on the model 19. It is a model that I am looking for, as i fell in love with shooting my friends 19. Revolvers can be a challenge to shoot in DA mode, but it is fun to master.

 

[MrBorland]

put that thing in a rest and shoot it SA. Or let somebody else shoot it.

+1. First be sure there isn't anything wrong with the gun itself. Maybe have a gunsmith take a look at it. Or go through the Revolver Checkout thread below to see if you can spot anything obviously wrong.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=1430

Aside from that, I agree with what others suggest - the dummy round drill, patience, and lots of practice, including copious (quality) dry fire. IMHO, shooting a DA revolver well isn't easy, but it's very rewarding when you can.

In the meantime, to keep you inspired, watch some Miculek vids on youtube.

 

[kanook]

In the meantime, to keep you inspired, watch some Miculek vids on youtube

I don't know about that one. Watching him makes me want to quit.

You know he's an Alien that morphed into a human form.

 

[Jeff82]

Shoot the gun SA from a rest to see how accurate it is. Then shoot it DA standing offhand to see how accurate you are. 99% of the time any inaccuracies are not the gun.

 

[Ben86]

Shoot the revolver in SA to see closer to its true accuracy. It is difficult to shoot accurately with DA, if your trigger pull is off at all it throws the bullet way off. It takes a lot of practice. Maybe you should look into getting some .38 snap caps so you can do a lot of dry practice to perfect your trigger pull. Dry practice has made enormous improvement in accuracy for me within the past few month, and it was really cheap too!

 

[warman]

Thanks for all of the words of encouragement everyone, I think that is what I needed. I really love the gun, it fits my hand well and the weight is perfect (it's the 2.5" barrel BTW).
I really try to identify what I am doing wrong, I'm always thinking about keeping on the target through the shot to avoid a flinch but I'm sure I do it sometimes.
Also, I dry fire a lot at the TV keeping my eye on the front sight so it doesn't move - although I don't think I could ever keep a dime from falling off like someone mentioned, the pull necessary is just too great - I can minimize movement but not keep it perfectly still.
I also have tried different finger positions in the trigger and none of those seem to matter much.
I'm going to try SA and resting position to see if I can keep it straight at all and hopefully that will at least tell me if I'm pushing, pulling, flinching, etc.
Thanks again to all!

 

[9mmepiphany]

It is difficult to shoot accurately with DA,

After you can shoot your DA revolver well, you'll probably be a much better shot with anything than most people you know.

here's a little encouragement...it really is worth the effort

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=479645

 

[Hawk]

Like a certain ex-POTUS once said: "Ah feel your pain".

Getting proficient with a revolver's DA trigger is a first magnitude pain if you're background is in mutant-1911s

However, speaking as a sixty-ish year old that started revolver DA drills late in life, it's still worth it. I'm still not where I'd like to be and my 1911 groups look like they were shot by a different shooter than my DA revolver groups.

In addition to the advice about patience and practice, I'll toss in "progressive reloader" if budget permits - I was half way through my second time with a thousand lot of Starline .357 before I started to see real progress - that gets expensive.

I note your 19 is sight radius challenged - not a biggie but there will probably be a little more work involved, but it's enjoyable work.

Unlike your XD or my kinda-1911 you don't have gas cocking the beast for you. The DA revolver trigger is responsible for loading the spring that ignites the primer - this has made me skeptical of trigger work apart from anything other than range toys. The ammo shortage may limit your selection of factory ammo and/or Jerry M.'s preferred primer component. I hate light strike failures.

Hang in there.

 

[9mmepiphany]

(it's the 2.5" barrel BTW)

i forgot to address this point

i think the K-frame M-19/66 is a great gun to learn DA trigger work.

the shorter sight radius reduces the perception of front sight wobble...which can distract from a smooth DA trigger pull.

the longer sight radius only helps when you are ready to use it's potential greater precision

 

[Steve C]

One thing to check on a gun that's not providing good accuracy is to make sure the barrel is free of lead and copper fouling. Give it a thorough cleaning and chemically remove copper and lead fouling with t he proper bore cleaner for each.

 

[PT1911]

that is odd.. I shoot my revolvers MUCH better than my autos... I shoot both of them well, but overall if i had to take one shot from 25 yards I would reach for my 608 without hesitation.

 

[Rio Laxas]

It took me a long time to get decent shooting a revolver DA. It seems like one day it just clicked and now I am better with a revolver than a semi-auto. One thing that really helped me was to position my hand as high on the grip as I can. Are the grips comfortable for you?

 

[Colt Smith]

Out of all my guns, my 2.5" 19 is my favorite gun to shoot. Unless there is definitely something physically wrong with the gun it should shoot tight groups. Mine shoots like a laser. A Range Officer who took some shots with mine one time told me that the gun definitely had some trigger work done because the DA pull was soooooo smooth. Nope, no trigger work. 19's are awesome.

 

[warman]

almostfree - yes my grip position is OK. One of the RO at the range is an NRA instructor and he said my grip was good, high on the grip. I really think it is the trigger pull mainly. This gun was like new when I bought it - barely fired, so I'm thinking being 25+ years old without much use, the trigger needs to be broken in more. Plus I'm going to do some SA practice to make sure I can identify what I'm doing wrong with my technique.
To be honest, I think part of my issue is that I'm thinking too much on the trigger pull and grip and not focusing on the target as much which can tend to cause inaccuracy.
I just get so frustrated, I sike myself out.
So, back to the range and thank you all again for the feedback and great suggestions!

 

[DRYHUMOR]

It may be as the trigger breaks, at that instant, you end up pulling it one way or the other. If the trigger pull tension doesn't travel uniformly back with the trigger, it can throw you off a bit.

You could load some snap caps in it and pratice/wear the trigger.

 

[Stainz]

For your instant feedback, try loading two .38s, skip a chamber, load two more, and 'spin' the cylinder before you push it closed - and don't peek. Assume every DA pull is on a loaded chamber - and you'll see the muzzle dip or rise when you anticipate a live round on an empty cylinder.

To be candid, you likely will do much better with a trigger job. S&W's Performance Center can do wondrous, albeit not cheap, things to the K-frame lockwork. Call them - 800-331-0852 - during the week. I believe their price includes overnite shipping both ways - they'll send you a pre-paid pickup label. I think they charge $150-$165 for their 'Master Revolver' job - which includes a few other things as well - call them. A cheap local gunsmith's trigger job is often way overpriced. Good luck!

Stainz

 

[Ian's Dad]

honestly, i think the problem is the gun

I've heard nothing but bad things about the model 19. I think you need a different gun. send me a pm for my address and you can send it to me and i'll send you something better in exchange.

seriously, i have a model 27 that when i shoot it single action nothing comes close to it's accuracy. but double action is still in consistent for me as well.

i think the advice of practice practice practice makes a ton of sense.. i have had trigger/action jobs done on my model 12 and 442 and that does help a ton.. but still practice is required.

in double action, i still shoot my walther pps better, but am going to get there with the revolver... it's a major goal for me for this year.. i love revolvers.

 

[woad_yurt]

Lots of folks say that the strain screw should be all the way in but sometimes, it's just too tight for comfort. I have a few K-frames and have been able to back out the strain screw just a bit to get an easier pull. It makes a difference.

After doing that, however, I did run quite a few rounds through to make sure I wasn't getting any too-light hammer strikes.

 

[Deanimator]

Be patient... it takes time to get good with a DA revolver.

+10,000

Shooting a double action revolver WELL takes a LOT of work. Ed McGivern didn't just wake up one day, pick up a revolver and shoot the middles out of playing cards.