I'm moving into an apartment- some ideas requested

[chaim]

OK, so I'm finally moving out of my parent's house again. I'll be moving into a new apartment the end of September.

One concern is the mainenance crew. They'll obviously have keys to the place. I've lived at this same apartment complex before and I never had any trouble with anything disappearing, but I wasn't a gun owner at the time. So, I need to protect my guns better than I have at my parents house. They are in a house, in a "safe" area, so I have a small safe that holds some of my handguns, but my long guns and most handguns that aren't loaded for defense are just kept with a trigger lock when kids come around. Yeah, I know better, but living in my parents house I'm pretty low on space (most of my stuff from my last place is in their garage or in a storage unit and still my bedroom has boxes all over the place as it is) so I didn't really have room for a good safe.

Well, since I'm moving (there are quite a few related expenses), and I'm a teacher and not paid over the summer, money is tight and will be for a few months. I don't want to wait a few months with my guns unprotected. So, I can't really afford a really good safe right now. The best I can do, and it is pushing it, is one of the Stack-on type safes (the ones with the dead bolt locks on a lightweight safe, not the sheet metal cabinets) that go for $300-400. However, that is pushing it a bit. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable with one of the sheet metal cabinets but I'm considering it as a stop gap until tax time and then getting something nicer. I'm also considering (again as a stop gap until I get my tax return next winter) putting a new lockable door nob on the walk-in closet that maintenance won't have a key for, and then if they for some reason need to get in my closet it will just have to be arranged in advance while I'm there (and I'll arrange for any guns to be hidden elsewhere). I am slightly leaning towards the last idea since they won't know what is in the closet- if they know of the guns (assuming they know what the green Stack-on safe or cabinet would be hiding) they could come when they have more time to break in, not knowing what is in the closet they may not bother.

I do pretty much know what changes I'm making in my HD guns and load, but I want to share them. I already worry about overpenetration, but in an apartment I'll worry about it even more. So, no more .40S&W loaded for home defense...Only .45ACP and .38spl (I'll probably stick with +P on the .38s). I may start looking for a .45LC or .44spl revolver. Power, without too much penetration. For my shotgun, I'm probably going to switch away from 00 buck to #4 buck (I want to stick with buckshot since birdshot is a pretty unreliable manstopper, and I want to be able to stop the threat). I'm not too happy about the idea of #4 buck though so I may move to my .45LC Winchester 94, but out of a long-gun it may have too much overpenetration just like the magnum revolver rounds. Another option is .223/5.56 since it tends to be a good stopper at short HD ranges without too much overpenetration. If I do that I wouldn't use my AR (not PC looking enough for me to feel comfortable- in Baltimore City you WILL be charged in a home defense shooting no matter how good a shoot, and Balt City residents don't usually know guns, they'll just know it is an "evil assault rifle", especially after the prosecutor makes sure they know that). I may get a wood stocked Mini-14 for the duty, or even a .223 Browning BLR if they make it in .223.

So, your thoughts (especially for keeping the guns safe, and a good PC looking .223 HD rifle/carbine)?

 

[buck00]

One concern is the mainenance crew. They'll obviously have keys to the place.

I had this same concern. No they won't take anything- it would be pretty foolish and obvious, but they could take notice and tip off shady buddies. So in general, don't leave a ton of shooting stuff laying around or guns in plain view. Most apartments announce or give notice for repairs- so if you know they are coming, hide the Remoil and ammo and keep the guns out of sight.


The other concerns and questions you had, I can't address. I'm facing some of the same issues.

 

[Fumbler]

Buy a handgun safe.

Leave all but a couple handguns at your parents' house.
Wait til you get a paycheck.
Buy a nice big heavy safe for the rest of the guns, then bring them to your apartment.

Don't use a 45LC, it'll penetrate more than your 45 and 38.

 

[damien]

I left an AR-15 out once at an apartment. A building inspector came in and saw it. He called the cops. The cops told him that this was America and he should take a hike (they didn't even come out). The inspector told the building manager despite knowing at that point that having a rifle (even a black ugly one) was completely legal. It's a joy to live in Illinois, I tell you. I had a nice talk with her and in the end kept the rifle in the apartment and taught her how to shoot. It all worked out well.

Back then I only had a few guns. The apartment had a drop ceiling. I put the guns in the ceiling. Figured that any potential thief would take the TV and computer and never look there. Never had any problems.

 

[RNB65]

Don't clean your guns while they're loaded. You might shoot a neighbor.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=295786

 

[James T Thomas]

metropolitan life

Congratulations on your beginning independence.
What ever size of apartment you will be moving into there will be thieves in residence, and they will be watching you move.

My recommendations?

The first thing. Change the existing lock on the door. My sister and her husband were robbed only a few days after moving into their apartment, and there were no signs of forced entry.

Make friends with your immediate neighbors. Introduce youself, and network.
You can watch out for each other; neighborly.

And if you have a balcony; get a professional to install a new and difficult to defeat lock, there too.

Finally, do not ever leave any valuable or even tempting item visible inside your parked car. Alarm or not.

This may sound a little silly, but finally, if you are in certain neighborhoods in Baltimore, I would choose a shoulder fired weapon that could mount a bayonet! Yes I would. Facing one of those behind an outraged and determined defender will cause second thoughts, perhaps more so than the possibility of being shot; for any intruder or a group of them.

 

[hotsauce]

Take the 12 gauge and a 45 and leave the rest at your parents.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Take the 12 gauge and a 45 and leave the rest at your parents.

Thats what I would do. But make sure to hide the guns well and in different places. Also make sure you don't have anything lying around that would point out your into guns, this goes with whatever path you chose too.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

I just moved into a new apartment in a big complex as well, but have been an apartment dweller for a while due to moving frequently.

Change the locks, buy a safe too big for one guy to carry off, cut some x shapes in the carpet and run bolts into the floor through the x's in carpet. That way you can bolt it to the floor and get your deposit back when you move out. Put one gun in that one and some cash.
Then, buy a cheap little safe and keep it in your closet in a box labeled "paper cups" or something banal like that and cover it with paper cups. Put your good stuff in that one.

Definitely change the locks. Not only the maintenance guys, but former tenants have keys too. Everybody knows that they just juggle the locksets around in a complex, so a former tenant with a little guts will just go around and try locks until the key works.

If you can, put a motion sensor outside your door so you will know when someone is out there but not knocking. Put a peephole in at chest height too.

As far as a rifle, I wouldn't.

 

[chaim]

Leave all but a couple handguns at your parents' house.

Unfortunately, that isn't really an option. My parents are hardcore anti-gun (well, dad is anyway). Early members of the Coalition to Stop Handgun Violence, back when they were called the Coalition to Ban Handguns. They only put up with my hobby because they were nice enough to let me stay with them, but they are looking forward to having a gun-free household again. They wouldn't put up with the guns without me.

Congradulations on your beginning independence.

Thanks, but I'm restarting my independence, not really beginning. I've been on my own before but had to move back home a few years ago (I was at home for a couple years of low pay jobs, then a year playing catch up). Luckily, living at home let me indulge my hobby and pick up a few guns I couldn't have if I was paying full rent. Anyway, I've remained pretty independent while with my parents (I'm in my 30s)- buy and cook my own food, clean up after myself, do my laundry, etc., though I do have no to below market rate rent (when I had low paying jobs it was no rent) and no separate utilities.

Change the existing lock on the door.

Probably not a bad idea. How do you coordinate this with the management when you do it? Do you ask before hand (it is a big corporate place, I'm not even sure they'd go for hardware that isn't theirs) or just tell them after the fact? I know they want maintenance to have access whenever needed for emergencies, I'm assuming that at minimum I'd have to give them a key.

This may sound a little silly, but finally, if you are in certain neighborhoods in Baltimore...

Well, this neighborhood isn't a bad neighborhood (for Baltimore), but it is Baltimore. Also, I do want to be armed since anti-semetic violence in the neighborhood (this is the area where the Orthodox Jewish community is located) has been on the rise for several years now.

As far as a rifle, I wouldn't.

Well, normally rifle calibers aren't good for home defense (too much overpenatration), however .223/5.56 generally has less overpenatration than most handgun calibers. In an apartment and anywhere overpenatration is an issue it may well be the best choice.

 

[JamesM]

ow do you coordinate this with the management when you do it? Do you ask before hand (it is a big corporate place, I'm not even sure they'd go for hardware that isn't theirs) or just tell them after the fact?

I would get a similar looking lock or a cheap replacement to fill the hole while you take it to get re-keyed. Dont tell them anything. If they really need to get into your apt they can break in and bill you. Not having keys will keep them out unless it is a real emergency (not that you forgot to turn your alarm clock off).

 

[ConfuseUs]

Change the locks first thing. Most likely there will be no need for maintenance to access your apartment while you are away anyway.

Do not rent apartments on the ground or garden levels. Multiple points of entry and waaay too easy to break into. Plus they are more likely to have plumbing problems as well. Upper floor units have one easy to access entry. Even better if the entrance to the apartment is inside a building with a secured entrance.

Although the one and only plus for the garden/basement level is that, depending on the direction, you could use a .458 Win Mag with no overpenetration worries.

 

[TennVOL]

When I lived in apartments I had a cheap homak security cabinet drilled into the studs in my coat closet. I took the doorknob off and replaced it with a deadbolt. Management could still come in and do it's thing but couldn't open the closet door. When I moved I took off the deadbolt and put the knob back on.

 

[Big Calhoun]

You probably should just talk with the property manager and just ask what the protocol is for visits. I shared this same concern and was advised that they notify you in advance of maintainence visits, and that was how it worked. They clipped a notice to the door to say they'd be around at such-and-such a time for inspections, or repair and I had plenty of time in advance to 'clean up'.

+1 on the snitching maintainence crew. If anything, they are not the problems, it's thier friends that could be the issue. And sometimes it happens innocent enough, "Hey, this dude over in 4C has this awesome looking rifle, I want to ask him if he'll let me shoot it." -- those kinds of situations.

 

[Kevin108]

In my lease my property manager has to notify me 24 hours in advance unless there's an emergency. I've made it a point to introduce myself to the maintenance guys when they've been working on other units here.

In your case the best thing to do might be to hide your guns in plain sight or unusual places instead of trying to actually secure them.

 

[Mantua]

If I were you, I'd check with the management before changing the locks. Where I am, it's grounds for eviction.
I'm also in an apartment complex (one full of... undesirables), and I don't have a gun safe. Management won't let me bolt one to the floor and I don't see the need for a 200 lb carrying case, which is all an unsecured safe is. Find a hidey-hole, ceiling panels would be great, or leave everything at the folks' house. If at all possible, when you get a safe, see if you can bolt her down.

Good luck!

 

[Titan6]

Sounds crazy but this worked fine for me.

I left a Jennings .380 in the open on the kitchen counter every day. You won't be able to hide your guns. Since you have no way of securing them you may as well be brazen. Unless they are quite bold and determined they will likely leave you alone. A quick snatch and grab will likely grab the gun and run right back out again. To most crooks a cheap gun is not worth the risk of getting shot over.

You mark the cheap gun so that if it has been moved you will know as soon as you walk through the door. If it has been moved (or missing) you will know if someone has been going through your stuff and there might even be someone in the apartment. I left the rest of the guns unsecure in the closet. Never had an issue in three years.

 

[Soybomb]

I've known people that have used their bed frame as a way to lock guns to something large and unwieldy and it seemed like a good idea to me. A cable lock through the bed frame and the gun should work. If you felt really ambitious you could reinforce things with a bit of additional angle iron and some tamper resistant nuts/bolts that would slow down any attempt to disassemble the frame. Don't leave bolt cutters laying around

 

[Big Calhoun]

Soybomb, nice idea!!! I never thought of that and have multiple laptop cable-locks lying around. Gotta add that method to my bag of tricks.

 

[Deanimator]

Check out deals on Sentry safes at Walmart. They're a little better than the Stack-Ons. I had similar considerations to yours, and it met them pretty well.

 

[joab]

Change the locks first thing. Most likely there will be no need for maintenance to access your apartment while you are away anyway.

Most likely a lease violation, and a very noticeable one at that
The complexes I worked for at would give you one warning then an eviction notice

Management does have many reasons to access your apartment when you are gone
Fire safety check, pest control, water damage in unit below (always rent upstairs)
That will also be written into your lease
Typically they have to give you at least a 24 hour notice,this is fulfilled by notices in the monthly complex news letter that no one reads or in the lease itself

Maintainance workers will generally not snoop but they will notice anything you leave out
Less scrupulous type have what is called a probable cause policy
If they see something like a interesting photo of your girlfriend it will give them probable cause to snoop just a little to see if there are nekid photos of her lying around
But they will almost never open a door or go through a lock

Tenvol's suggestion is good
Deadbolt a closet and stick one of those sheet metal cabinets in there

They are actually pretty good at keeping honest people out

 

[bad LT]

I would be very hesitant of leaving anything in the apartment that would sugest that you have firearms there. For instance, if you leave out a bunch of empty long gun cases lying around the apartment, most people that enter the aprartment (maintence workers, bug sprayers, friends of roomates, etc.) will assume that there are guns in the apartment. Also, most people know that there are usually guns in a gun safes.

I definatly recommend placing guns attached to the bedframe by a cable lock. Then place dirty, smelly laundry in from of them - a very good deterent to theft in its own right

Also, if possible do not walk around the apartment complex with gun cases - again most people there will then know there are guns in your apartment! Handguns are easy enough to carry to and from the range, but rifles and shotguns may require imagination to cary without alerting the neighbors. Some ideas:

Many shotguns (870s, mossbergs, etc.) and some rifles (Browning semi-auto 22s, AR-15s, etc.) can break down quickly into half there normal length for transport. They can then be stuffed into a duffle bag after being wrapped in some padding (I often use old sweatshirts).

Old, worn, dirty golf cases can be used to transport longuns. Put the longun in a soft case, place in the golf case muzzle up, and place a golf head protector placed over the muzzle.

Some rifles (AKs, some savage bolt rifles, etc.) can use a folding stock. Place the rifle folded into a case, then place the case in a duffle bag.

 

[DogBonz]

A few Ideas and thoughts

First, in most states, unless it is an emergency (aka fire, pipe gushing water every where, etc) your land lord/ maintenance staff have to give you at least 24 hours notice before entering your apartment, and usually this must be done in writing.

Dollar for dollar, your best bet (if you are handy) is to fortify a closet. For less than the price of the crappiest aluminum foil “safe” you could make a closet 10X harder to break into. If you don’t want to go that route, go to Home Depot and look at the “Job Boxes” they might be a bit big for your needs, but they are stronger than your average wallmart gunsafe. Load one up with some “ballast” and it will be very hard for some one to walk off with it. Another thing is a truck box. Every thief knows what a gun safe looks like, but a truck box might not draw that much attention. Get a welder from a local shop to weld up a few brackets, add a pad lock or two, and you have a decent box.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

On the issue of overpenetration, almost anything that will be effective on people is going to penetrate into the next apartment if you miss - so your first step to minimize this risk is to use the platform that you are most proficient with. The second step is too get even more proficient if you can and the third step would be ammo selection to minimize the problem further.

On shotguns, when I lived in an apartment, I used #4 copper-plated turkey loads (though I think #4 buck is a better choice) in my 12ga. Pattern your shotgun with whatever load you use so you know what the spread is like at different range (because anything that doesn't hit the attacker is a potentially lethal projectile entering your neighbor's apartment). In most cases, apartment distances are so short that it shouldn't be a big problem though.

As far as securing the weapons, prior to when I owned a safe, I would take the bolts out of all of my stored long guns and store them separately from the long guns. This also works if you only have a small handgun safe. Store the bolts in the safe along with the handgun. If you want to have ready access to a long gun, then this may not be the best solution.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Most of the times you can't change the locks, so here is the cheap alternative:

1) live on the second floor or above, where access is difficult
2) keep your doors locked at all times
3) keep your guns out of sight. A safe is nice, but a large safe is impractical for an apartment. When transporting the guns, transport them in something other than a gun case (like a guitar case).