I'm moving into an apartment- some ideas requested

[chaim]

OK, changing the locks on the front door won't be allowed. I didn't check about putting a locking knob on a closet, but I don't see why that would be a problem (no plumbing, or HVAC access in the closets, there is a light switch and light in the walk-in but if there was an electrical emergency located in that switch or light they could shut down power through the fuse box until arrangements could be made to get into the closet).

Several people had comments about specific floors- I will be on the second floor- for the front door it will be the entry level but from the balcony we are one floor above the ground floor. It would be possible for a fit person to climb the balcony (I've had friends enter their apartments that way to show off when we were young), but just keeping the sliding glass door locked and having the bar in place should provide adequate security. Heck, most criminals aren't professionals specifically targeting you anyway, they are crackheads and others looking for a quick buck- they are most likely to take the easiest target, in this case the apartment below me.

As for securing any safe I pick, if there are holes in the back of the safe to allow it, I plan to secure it to the wall. It will be hard or impossible to get permission to bolt it to the floor. However, screwed into a wall stud, or even wall board with anchors, will hold it pretty well and not leave too bad a scar when I leave (the screw hole and anchor in the wall won't be distinguishable from the holes left by mounting paintings and pictures- between tenants apartment complexes have to spackle and paint all the time).

Part of me is leaning towards just putting a locable knob on the walk-in closet. Even a cheap Stack-on or Sentry safe (fire resistant, inexpensive safes, not the cheap sheetmetal cabinets) will run around $250 for one that will hold a few rifles and about $150-200 for another for my pistols. A new lockable knob will run $30-60 (a little more if I go with a deadbolt instead of a knob). The disadvantages are no fire resistance and it will be somewhat inconvenient (I will need to be in and out of my closet every day when I get ready for work and whenever I do laundry, I would need to open a gunsafe far less often). If someone can break in the front door which will be locked (knob and deadbolt) they can get through the lock on the closet. However, a crackhead or someone looking for quick cash may be discouraged by the lock in order to get in and out as quickly as possible, while a professional thief could certainly get in a $200-500 safe with little trouble anyway. I could just leave it unlocked most of the time (maybe couple it with one of the cheap sheetmetal cabinets for some protection against the garden variety teenage or crackhead thief) then lock the door when I "need" it. That would accomplish my main needs- keep the kids of visiting friends away from my guns, and keep my guns out of sight of maintenence (as well as keeping my ownership of guns more sercret than them seeing a gun safe would).

A couple people mentioned needing to make sure neighbors don't know about the guns, and finding a way to disguise the long guns when I take them to the range. I'm already thinking along those lines. I thought about the golf bag, but too bulky (especially to store if I don't want to use the same bag as I use for my golf clubs). I was leaning towards a guitar case. However, I was thinking. While the cheaper fabric cases that are shaped more or less like a gun are pretty obvious, the better travel cases (some plastic with aluminium edges, some all aluminium) aren't really obvious what they are for- similar cases can be used to protect all kinds of equipment (guitars, photography equipment, guns, etc.). My only concern is when I'm bringing 3 or 4 rifles/shotguns to the range: 1) how many people bring that much photography equipment or more than one guitar with them at a time, 2) that type of case isn't cheap and having several would get cost prohibitive (though many are made to hold up to 2 long guns).

Check out deals on Sentry safes at Walmart. They're a little better than the Stack-Ons

They are similar in price from what I can tell. I'll probably go on overall price and availability, but they look good. Weight on all but the largest is heavy enough to help discourage people from walking off with them (though I'll probably also have them screwed into the wall if I can) and light enough for apartment living (I don't think I want a full sized, and heavy, gun safe until I have my own house and I won't be going anywhere for quite a few years).

On the issue of overpenetration, almost anything that will be effective on people is going to penetrate into the next apartment if you miss...

The only thing I disagree with in your statement is "almost", even a .22lr that misses can be deadly to the neighbor in the next apartment (well, maybe not through the brick outside wall). The only way to minimize that issue is to practice and train so as to be less likely to miss. I'm more worried about the kind of overpenetration that can happen when you hit the attacker and it exits him/her with possibly enough force after going through an apartment wall to still be dangerous.

prior to when I owned a safe, I would take the bolts out of all of my stored long guns and store them separately from the long guns.

I have a friend who didn't want to buy a handgun safe and would do this with his pistol. He'd either hide the barrel, or he'd put it in his pocket and take it with him.

 

[larry_minn]

In apt I changed locks with same look/type ASAP. When maint asked me about it a few weeks later I asked WHY he was trying to get into MY apt. He had no answer so I said the lock would stay till I left. (I did use line that their lock broke late at night so I used a personal one as I didn't want to bother anyone at 2am when it broke.
Like closet idea as well.

 

[230RN]

Ditto ditto on the upper floors. And if you're on the top floor, you have at least one "safe" direction to point your firearms... don't forget there are people below and around you... don't use the floor as a safe direction.

One through the roof may get you evicted, and cost you some $$$ but won't hurt anyone unless you hit some wiring up there by the worst of bad luck.

I took the regular key-less door knobs off one of my bedrooms and replaced it with a similar-loking lockset. I keep my bangy thingies in that bedroom and usually leave a pair of undershorts hanging on the knob to discourage "testing" the door handle. Don't laugh.

Don't forget that your lease may override any state laws about "24-hour notice."

Keep gooooood relations with your building managers. An extra $20 - $50 check to them with a "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Chanukka" or whatever card is always appreciated. Tell them you were always taught to "take care of the people who take care of me --t's just the way I was raised." if there are any questions about tipping.

A booklet of first-class stamps attached to your rental check every one in a while helps, too. Grocery store and Starbuck's gift cards are also valuable here. One line I've used is, "Ah, you guys get nothing but complaints and negative stuff in the mailbox, I figured I'd give you something positive once in a while."

(Most people don't understand the power of the occasional ancillary remuneration --or, if you prefer, call it "tipping.")

Don't let your neighbors see you with firearms. Golf bags are good for smuggling, and I sometimes use a Curtain Rod box to sneak guns out to the car in the dead of night before a range session.

Keep a spare set of apartment keys accessible outside the apartment.

I taped a car key to the top of my porch light, and keep a spare set of apartment keys in the car. By permission of the management, I don't park in my regular numbered spot, so ne'er-do-wells can't correlate the apartment number with the car. Those extra keys have come in handy a couple of times.

Most top-floor apartments have a hatchway to the attic, and this is a "soft spot" for enterprising would-be cat burglars. In one apartment I lived in I noticed there are no separators between the apartments up in the attic. Unlikely, but you never know when a testosterone-fueled bored teenager might want to "explore" up there (think: "Joseph Gribble").

Sounds far-fetched, but wilder things have happened. Deal with that soft spot the best you can. Screwing a nice white-painted crossbar to and across the hatch will work, and almost never be noticed (an ex-GF wanted me to do this for her place). Doesn't have to be tempered steel or anything. Just enough so you can't pick up the hatch from the attic.

Don't "neighbor" too much. Just enough that you can't be accused of being a "loner," but neighbors have a tendency to start asking impertinent questions when they get to know you a little better. At work and other places, I'm the most gregarious person you'd ever want to meet, but I only get (cautiously) friendly with one or two of my neighbors.

I was going to suggest the cable locks, but someone beat me to it.

And leave your radio or TV on a spanish-speaking station when you leave... not loud enough to disturb anyone, but loud enough that if someone approaches your door they will hear it.

Say, don't most school systems allow you to spread out your pay periods through the summer? Makes it hard to budget otherwise. And budgeting, even if the budget is way off of reality, is one of the best ways to save money overall.

 

[RyanM]

Unless you securely bolt the safe to some major, load-bearing beams (which would probably get you in deep doodoo with the landlord), any safe only serves to protect your guns from honest people. Bolting it to the wall studs might work, sorta, but it wouldn't be that secure. 10 minutes with a crowbar and your safe would be gone. About the only thing that'd hold it securely enough would be drilling a hole all the way through the stud, and put a nice big washer and nut on the opposite side, which requires putting a hole in the wall. And of course, if they really want that safe, they can just put a hole through the wall again and unbolt it. I guess recessing the nut hole a half an inch would help prevent that from happening, but good luck getting a drill in there at that angle.

Then for getting it out, it would be very little trouble to get one of them lifter things, or a furniture dolly, or something, and just wheel the safe out. If the thief were really clever, they could even hide the safe under a hollowed-out old chair, or inside a beat-up refridgerator or washing machine or something. Wheeling out ancient furniture or appliances would look totally normal, no one would give them a second glance.

And locking a closet door wouldn't do much good if they decide to kick it in, or use a crowbar or car jack to wedge the frame wide enough to open the door.

You're probably better off finding creative hiding places. In the closet, on top of a wardrobe, in a drawer, and under your mattress are right out. Those are the first places that a thief would look.

 

[TimboKhan]

My roommate got a promotion thats moving him out of state, which sucks pretty hard for me, so I am moving too. I am going to be living on the 7th floor of a sort of shady building in a sort of shady part of town, because my current budget doesn't allow for a better place. Anyway, Most of my guns got moved to my dads house. Some are coming with me. All will be kept loaded and "seeded" throughout the house. I don't want to sound overly paranoid, but I am keeping the AR ready to go in my bedroom, the .357 ready to go on my nightstand, the other .357 in the bathroom, the 9mm in the kitchen cabinet and the .45 tucked into my chair, plus my new kel-tec will be my constant companion in and out of the apartment.

 

[defjon]

Tim, personally I don't think I could leave all my guns scattered around and hidden like that. I move in larger social circles, and so if I have 10-15 people over I wouldn't feel comfortable with loaded weapons in nearly every room. It seems like a breeding ground for some horrible accident or something!

 

[Kevin108]

$35 - http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=359901

Electronic Locking Quick - access Safe is ON SALE!

Protects your handguns, but offers pistol-quick access to them when needed, because keyless entry means no searching for your keys.

To gain entry, you just push Electronic Quick-access buttons, using a pre-programmed code that only you know. Keeps firearms safe from little hands, too. Heavy-duty powder-coated steel construction. Mounts anywhere. Measures 3 1/2 x 10 x 7 1/2" h. Weighs 10 lbs.

 

[Art Eatman]

Quick and dirty: Do some sort of key-lock thing on a closet door. Drill a hole above each hinge pin, and drive a headless 16d nail into the stud. That keeps any maintenance-guy problem down. And it's a start on making a closet more secure.

There are pin-and-socket security deals you can install on the hinge side of a door. Using carriage bolts, you can add a 1/2" piece of plywood to the inside of the door; some paint and it's not at all obvious.

Nothing stops a serious pro, but the odds are for worries about teenagers and the quick in-and-out crowd.

Art

 

[TnRebel]

speaking as a past Apt. manager, READ YOUR LEASE before you change that entry lock or you might be sitting on the curb. looking for another place to live :banghead: as most leases say you have to give a key to the office and as for maintenance men going in with out a legitimate reason most complexes have system that mant. must log out the key and time stamp the work order and returned the key after work is done. Most break in's done in Apts. are done with a Bump Key and is blamed on mant. or the office if it is a top grade complexes all staff is BONDED. and a extensive back ground check is done on the staff. as for myself I always went the closet way for grand kids and anyone else with prying eyes and I used a cheap wall-mart 12 gun two lock safe for my arms bolted to the floor and studs. the only thing you have to remember is to put everything back the way you leased it Pant , putty and doors. and there should be no problem.

 

[TimboKhan]

I move in larger social circles, and so if I have 10-15 people over I wouldn't feel comfortable with loaded weapons in nearly every room. It seems like a breeding ground for some horrible accident or something!

haha... While I am a nice and very friendly guy, I have a small core group of friends that I hang out with, and all of them are gunnies. At the most, I might have 4 or 5 guys over to play poker, and that would be it. Even then, that wouldn't be all that frequently.

 

[gezzer]

Buy a safe, or buy your own house. Easy as that but in your own house BUY A SAFE.

 

[got cope?]

Dummy!

No one's mentioned buying the cheapest safe you can find and putting it in the open, in the bedroom or the den. Fill it with a BB gun and a cheap single shot .410 or heck just the BB gun and of course a tin of BB's. Leave the keys in the door.

Hide the good stuff elsewhere using some of the great suggestions in this thread.

 

[Fulcrum of Evil]

> Back then I only had a few guns. The apartment had a drop ceiling. I put the guns in the ceiling.

Isn't this a fairly common thing - I remember some army seargent joking about the dim recruits that hid things in the drop ceiling at the barracks.

> This may sound a little silly, but finally, if you are in certain neighborhoods in Baltimore, I would choose a shoulder fired weapon that could mount a bayonet!

In certain parts of B'more, my weapon of choice would be a shoulder fired rocket. Hope you're not in the parts where you don't stop after dark.

 

[davinci]

how much more to get a house?
There's some big advantages to owning a house, and in my area it can cost about the same to get a mortgage on a $80,000 house than a $650 apartment....and you get all the freedom you ever wanted.

Here 80k will get you a 2 bed 1 bath that needs a 'little' work.

 

[40SW]

Bartholomew Roberts (Moderator) is correct, its 100% urban legend ballistics that .45LC, .45ACP, and .38 spcl, don't overpenetrate. I agree that the risk is always there. Think about it!!, especially in modern construction, the dry wall used is CHEAP and the walls are THIN !!, if you think that a modern .45ACP JHP out of a 5 inch 1911 barrell is not going to penetrate through cheap dry wall and a couple of inches of cheap construction. ,then!!, :banghead:
Try frangible ammunition, its about the only semi safe alternative. I live in a condominium complex. I worry about overpenetration every night.

 

[CypherNinja]

I'm just getting into metalworking and machining. I'm also looking at the possibility of an apartment for school sometime soon.

My thought was to build a 'modern art' bed frame (or other furniture) out of sheetmetal. Think something with cross-sections in the 4x4 to 8x10 range. With some cleverly hidden latches, little access doors could be added to the undersides or backsides of the beams.

All kinds of great stuff you could hide in something like that.


If you can, make friends with a woodworker or welder.

 

[chaim]

There's some big advantages to owning a house, and in my area it can cost about the same to get a mortgage on a $80,000 house than a $650 apartment

Around here (where I live now) a 2 or 3 BR townhouse is $300-400K (rents here run $900-1200 for a 1BR, $1100-1500 for a 2BR). In the part of Baltimore I'm going to move, and old roach infested duplex is about $200K, a slightly nicer duplex is $250K and a simple but nice single family house will run $300-350K. My rent is going to be ~$900 and I'm splitting it with a good friend who will be my roommate (a one bedroom in the neighborhood where I'm moving would run $650-800). It will be 5+ years before I can buy.

Bartholomew Roberts (Moderator) is correct, its 100% urban legend ballistics that .45LC, .45ACP, and .38 spcl, don't overpenetrate...

That isn't what he said at all (he said if you miss...). He (and I) have said repeatedly, that if you miss with ANY caliber (even .22lr) you will go through standard construction materials. However, that is not the definition of overpenetration.

Again, when speaking of overpenetration what it usually refers to is when you hit your attacker and the round goes through him/her and usually has enough remaining energy to be a danger. This is common with high velocity rounds (9mm, but JHP can lessen the danger, most rifle rounds, .40S&W) and heavier weight bullets in a caliber (like 180gr bullets in .38spl/.357mag), but it is less common with standard loadings in slower calibers (like .38spl, .45LC and .45ACP).

Not hitting what you are aiming at and the bullet keeps going through the weak building materials used today is not overpenetration, it is called penetration (no over- prefix), punching through barriers, doing what the bullet was designed to do, etc.

 

[shepsan]

chaim, you are getting some excellent suggestions. I would like to add one regarding the kind of weapon you might rely on for aprartment defense.

I find it unwieldy to handle a shotgun in an apartment. I also find that my CCW .45ACP would blast through the walls too easily. Yet, I would like to have the protection of a shotgun and a 45 for home defense.

The new Taurus 4510 revolver loads with both .45 Colt (LC) and .410 bore shot shells. Is has a short 3" barrel which means it could be placed on a bedstand quite easily.

The use of .410 shot shells sized with either #4 or # 000 should enable one to stop an attacker without over penetrating walls. The revolver could also be loaded with 45 colt rounds. Using both types of ammo in the revolver should make it more than ample for apartment use.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

 

[TimboKhan]

$80,000 house

What? $80,000 house? Man, the days of the $80,000 house are long gone in this state...

 

[roo_ster]

I have done the "swap out the knob for a deadbolt" deal in my own house. It keeps the kiddos out and will be really obvious if someone busts the door out.

Another poster mentioned welding a steel bed frame. You can always invest in the lumber to make your own bed frame or bed frame & box spring. Lotsa room and very innocuous...

As to which HD weapon in an apartment, I am partial to a shotgun with reduced-recoil buckshot. Heck, a Chinese knockoff M97 trench gun with bayonet sounds like it might be advised in Baltimore, from what previous posters write.