Imminent murder

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
162
At what point in time did seeing a person with a firearm mean that someone is gonna end up dead and soon. People see LEO and do not think of a potential murder. When did we become the murderous scum the public at large seems to think we are. Is there a certain point in history when everyone seemed to stick their heads where the sun don't shine? I know the powers that be have after us for a long time, but when did the general public turn against us. The general public used to be us. I do not know if i should cry or scream (heheheh).
 
the question ....

My point! I am not making a point. I am asking a question about they views of the public and as to the how and why for the change considering that the public as a whole was a gun owner society. When two or more people passed and they were packin' heat it used to be hellos and how do you do's. Now it is terrified soccer moms and other assorted cry babies screaming at 911 that someone is gonna be killed. So, once again, at what point did our country turn against us/itself?
 
Gun Society?

I believe your referring to the shift from a gun accepting society?

I believe it was sometime during the 60's peace movement that that began and with each generation further removed from the camping/hunting/military/LE generations the more distant acceptance of guns becomes.

It was also during the eighties when the violence in America exploded. Much violence was happening due to soft penalties against criminals. But Due to restrictions, civilians doing anything about it disappeared, thus equating in gun-less homes the 'guy with the gun is bad syndrome.'
 
No offense friend, but it might help your situation if you toned down the emotion a bit and asked a direct question.

Correct me if I am wrong...

What you are trying to say is: America used to be a society of gun owners.

What you are trying to ask is: When and why did America turn so fearful of guns?
 
When I pass by a soccer mom they just say 'hi' to me, but that's because I carry concealed.:) Now I suppose she might get a little excited if I was strolling up to the soccer field with an exposed shotgun.
 
Whenever too many people get together and danger does not exist.
Towns in the 1880's banned guns...

When the other side is apparent people do not mind (Kippling's British Soldier poem)

In 2002 I open carried around town when I was attending Gunsite... nobody minded.
 
My guess would be the 60s.

I was a kid in the 1950s. When I attended summer day camp, activities included both archery and riflery. For both the boys AND THE GIRLS. This was considered normal then -- everyone was supposed to know how to shoot. At around the same period, my home town put up a big log timber backstop on one edge of the town softball fields and there was some kind of shooting instruction program run there by the town.

Ain't gonna happen today. The day camp is now a corporate retreat center, and the backstop has long since been removed from the softball fields.
 
Bit by bit, over time

And like many things, can be traced through history. But not all the history is clear cut, and much of that is no longer taught in schools and universities today.

For an entertaining and educational read I would highly recommend John Ross's "Unintended Consequences". Although it is a novel, there is a surprisingly large amount of history in it, along with many character's reactions to historical (as well as fictional) events.

Ok, fasten your seat belt (it's the law!) and get ready for the history lesson. And remember, you did ask for it.

There is no single point in time when this country woke up and said, "Gosh, people with guns are a bad thing", rather it built slowly and in increments, boosted from time to time by events and by deliberate actions.

Go back to the turn of the century (the 20th), and you see guns everywhere, even in the big cities, used for both protection and recreation. There were numbers of shooting galleries in major cities, it was a very popular pastime.

Jump forward a bit, and you get WWI. "The War to end all Wars". Add in both the shift from an agrarian society to a manufacturing society, waves of immigration from Europe, and then season with Prohibition. Mix and stir, then heat with the Great Depression.

Now you have a stew (the famous "Melting Pot") that begins to ferment gun control. The first major gun control laws affecting everyone (not just the racist "Jim Crow" laws) was the "Sullivan Law(s)". Sullivan was a major political figure in New York City, and in the 1920s he got laws passed that required a permit for carry (and a little later just for posession) of a handgun within the city limits. Then Prohibition, and the criminal empires it created. Gangsters with Tommyguns! War on the streets! The St. Valentine's Day Massacre! etc. etc.

Now the end of Prohibition (1933), and a lot of G men and T men are looking at being out of work. Along comes the NFA of 1934. Machine guns, silencers, stocked pistols, and short barreled rifles and shotguns (sawed off) are now illegal, unless registered with the Govt., and the ($200) tax paid. Remember, that is $200 in 1934. That is a lot of money for most folks, and so it wasn't a very popular thing to do. Instant job security for a lot of Federal cops. The groundwork is laid.

Now things get a huge push, the Second World War. We won, but the effort needed made a huge change in the social make up of our country. Many of the changes of the next 50 years can be traced back to things that got their start as a result of the war.

Through the 50s, things are still pretty good, shooting is taught in schools, the sight of someone with a gun is not an automatic danger signal, and common in the rural parts of the land. Any guns not restricted by the NFA of '34 are available to the public, by mail, delivered to your door if you want. Sold over the counter with no paperwork other than a sales reciept in virtually every dept and hardware store all over the country.

Then the 1960s. The asassination of JFK with a mail order rifle! The horror! And at this point, the Warren Commission report begins to open the rift between the (thinking) public and the Government. For the first time, large numbers of people begin to doubt the truth of what the Govt. tells us.
The murder of RFK a few years later puts the icing on the cake for the anti-gunners of the day, and the GCA 68 is passed. Firearms dealers now require a Govt license, and have to keep records. No more mail order guns for private (unlicensed) citizens. More rules about what is and is not a legal gun. "Sporting purposes" rules for imports. ID and record keeping requirement for ammo (later dropped). Age limits on purchases (18 for long guns, 21 for handguns). And some other stuff as well.

Lots of social turmoil in the 60s. Civil Rights. The Vietnam war. Free Love, Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll. Nixon. Kent State, etc. etc.
One result of this was a general disrespect for the Govt, and militarism. Serving your country was no longer a good and honorable thing in the eyes of many. Carry this through the 70s, with each new restriction creeping in, here or there.

Then comes the 80s. More change, more upheaval, and the anti-gun forces really shift into overdrive. The media becomes clearly, overtly anti gun. Time Magazine actually printed one editorial early on, declaring their position against private gun ownership. It was "too important an issue" for them to remain neutral.

The Regan shooting, and the tragic crippling of Press Secretary Jim Brady gave Sarah Brady her new mission in life. The one good law passed (GOPA 86) got stuck with a last minute amendment freezing the number of machine guns. No new ones allowed to be registered.

And then the Stockton school shooting, with an AK 47 lookalike. And other copycat shooting after that one. And all the while the media saying guns are bad, in both word and picture, for a couple of decades.

By the 90s, the media is going full tilt, and we get the AWB 94, banning a whole lot of things, but not one single assault rifle (as correctly defined, assault rifles are already covered under the NFA 34). 10 round magazine limit, and bans on certain combinations of features (folding stock, flash hider, bayonet lug, etc.etc.) The only good thing was the law included a sunset provision.

Things kept on this way, until 9/11. the single most horrific attack on America since Pearl Harbor, and worse in the sense that civilians were the target, and it was done without using any guns!

For a while, even the die hards in politics and the media stopped beating the gun control drum.

Today, the media is back at it, almost as bad as ever, and the entertainment side has their share of it as well. While constantly preaching "guns are bad", movies, TV, and video games constantly show people shooting other people, mostly with machineguns!

The devil is in the details, and I left out a lot more than I put in. Do some research, and be enlightened.
 
44AMP - Wow. Durn good summary. If you use this regularly, I'd add:

1966 - Charles Whitman the UT Austin tower sniper. The inability of Austin PD to get to him spurs LAPD and then every other PD in America to create SWAT. This was a factor in GCA68.

1968 - MLK assasinated 2 months before RFK - another factor in GCA68.
 
Last edited:
40's & 50's were the decades of cowboy heroes and six-shooters. What kids (boys & girls) didn't roam the neighborhood with a Daisy RR or revolver cap gun? Nobody gave it a second thought.

Suburbia changed the scene a bit too.

Then the assassinations. I agree with previous opinions on the 60's as being the pivotal decade. Add turmoil, riots, loss of innocence.....The turnabout in 50-60 years is dramatic.
 
thanks all

To the poster who said I was too emotional...well, maybe...but I take that liberty thing fairly seriously.

As far as being told to do some research, I have. Lots of it. What I was looking for was the general consensus of some of the other folks here. I was born in '75 and I most certainly remember the uproar over gang crime in L.A. I grew up in Denver, Colorado and I seem to recall that crime was a concern but it didn't really ramp up until the late '80's when violent crime became a larger problem. As with all idiotic leadership proceedures, guns were blamed and the law abiding were screwed. At least the Make My Day law happened to be followed by may issue to finally shall issue CCW.
 
Personally, I also believe the pivotal point was the assasinations of the '60s and the GCA of '68.

The turmoil this caused, coupled with the increased level of urbanization which occurred during the preceding 50 years, and the (then) contemporary non-violence culture, set in motion a powerful social movement which was, for the first time in contemporary history, embraced by virtually an entire generation of youth. Even those that departed from this way of thinking later usually didn't have the vested comfort in the presence of arms that their parents and grandparents typically did.


To the poster who said I was too emotional...well, maybe...but I take that liberty thing fairly seriously.

I understand. It wasn't said with offense. It was simply difficult to discern your question.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top