Importing F/A-18 Fighter Jets from Australia!

[General Geoff]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...vate-air-force-after-buying-46-f-a-18-hornets

What piques my curiosity is the legality of this in particular:


Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know, there is no loophole or exemption for aircraft cannons to the 1934 NFA as amended by the 1968 GCA and 1986 FOPA, which closed the machine gun registry in 1986. So how are they getting these planes imported legally?

That being said, this guy is winning at life.

 

[GarrettJ]

The article says he’s got 8 licenses through the ATF. These probably include importer and manufacturer of destructive devices as well as “regular” NFA stuff.

Just like other importers / dealers / manufacturers have licenses to import / deal / manufacture such items.

 

[H&R Glock]

If you can afford it and have all the licenses, no sweat. Maybe he'll give me a ride in one!

 

[General Geoff]

The article says he’s got 8 licenses through the ATF. These probably include importer and manufacturer of destructive devices as well as “regular” NFA stuff.

I must have missed that part while reading the article, thanks for pointing it out!

I guess when you're a government contractor, it doesn't matter whether you're actually in the business of buying/selling firearms to get FFLs and SOTs.

 

[Buzznrose]

I work in a DoD organization that deals in foreign military sales cases.

In a nutshell, when foreign nations buy US military gear, especially high tech/classified weapon systems, there are rules for their use, maintenance, and disposal, based on who the customer is and what is sold.

I don’t know specifics on this situation, but I would bet it would have been a stipulation that these jets would have to be sold back to the US government or an approved US civilian corporation/entity.

As far as the guns/cannons go, I am also quite confident that any munitions delivery systems would be demilitarized prior to selling to a civilian customer

 

[GarrettJ]

I guess when you're a government contractor, it doesn't matter whether you're actually in the business of buying/selling firearms to get FFLs and SOTs.

Why do you assume he doesn’t have legitimate businesses selling NFA stuff? Lots of destructive devices get sold to police departments all the time. (Every flash bang is an individual serialized DD). Once you have the license, import/manufacture away.

 

[GarrettJ]

As far as the guns/cannons go, I am also quite confident that any munitions delivery systems would be demilitarized prior to selling to a civilian customer

And beyond the ATF side of things, I imagine the FAA has regulations about mounting & firing guns on aircraft.

 

[DocRock]

I was offered two MiG 29s by Deputy Prime Minister Genady Primakov (not me personally, the company I was working for!) of Russia in 1995 to settle an outstanding debt held over from the Soviet Union.

I was 28 at the time and thought it was a really good idea but, sadly, had to pass. He was surprised so I had to explain the "New York Times" test. He wanted to know what that was, so I explained "When news of the deal is pub!ished in the NYT (which was moderately more useful than TP in those days), do I get to keep my job?.". He frowned, and his follow up was " Then T82 tanks are also out of question? "

 

[Buzznrose]

The company buying the aircraft are using them as aggressor fighters. All they néed the jets to be capable of is mimicking whatever aircraft capabilities the target ‘enemy fighters’ would possess

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

And beyond the ATF side of things, I imagine the FAA has regulations about mounting & firing guns on aircraft.

Read the caption under the picture of the Hawk with the 30mm Aden cannon mounted in the OP's link. The cannon is fully functional and Kirlin has over 100,000 live rounds. I am sure the Hornets would be included in whatever exemption/license he's got for auto-cannons.

The ATF can be very reasonable with things like this, if you have a documented need -- like forward air controller training. Ski Resorts out west have howitzers for avalanche control. Nuclear Power Plants have all sorts of goodies -- but are not in the firearms dealing/importing biz.

Having legit DOD business and sponsors does wonders for working with the ATF. If Kirlin is getting crypto codes from the NSA for Link-16, and top of the line electronic warfare pods from the USAF, getting live cannons imported should be child's play.

 

[OrangeCat]

I was offered two MiG 29s by Deputy Prime Minister Genady Primakov (not me personally, the company I was working for!) of Russia in 1995 to settle an outstanding debt held over from the Soviet Union.

I was 28 at the time and thought it was a really good idea but, sadly, had to pass. He was surprised so I had to explain the "New York Times" test. He wanted to know what that was, so I explained "When news of the deal is pub!ished in the NYT (which was moderately more useful than TP in those days), do I get to keep my job?.". He frowned, and his follow up was " Then T82 tanks are also out of question? "

I mean I don't like job hunting as much as the next guy but for a tank I'm willing to make some sacrifices.

 

[CapnMac]

Well, as a USG contractor, the business probably qualifies as an "agency," so, the Registry may not be closed to them (maybe, perhaps, YMMV).
20mm (0.79") rifled bore is--from top of my head--a DD in any event. Which makes me wonder if that makes them "two stamp" arms.
Since the system really can only be used when mounted in the airframe (unless subjected to significant modifications), it might, just, meet AOW. Maybe, perhaps, sorta, YMMV.

The stock 20mm ammo (and especially the 30mm Aden ammo) is going to be DD on a per-round basis, and I cannot imagine submitting that many Forms to ATFE.
Hmm, wonder if that's why there is such a backlog? More than 10 thousand applications from just one company in the same queue with a few thousand suppressor and SBR applications?

Boggles the mid a bit. Good thing it's National Grilled Cheese Sandwich Day.

 

[Nuclear]

Remember, contractors manufacture weapons for the military, including autocannons and destructive devices. There have to be all kinds of exemptions for companies providing services to the US military.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

...I imagine the FAA has regulations about mounting & firing guns on aircraft.

Indeed they do. It's illegal to arm a civilian aircraft. I'm fairly sure that it's illegal to fire a gun from an aircraft, but there must be some exceptions because I keep hearing PETA and Safari Club talk about how we shoot wolves from helicopters up here.

However, I have seen a North American AT-6 (WWII era fighter trainer with a single, 30 cal gun) where the owner replaced the gun mount in the right wing leading age with a black pipe connected to a propane tank. There was a bbq grill igniter in the line controlled by the gun trigger on the flight control stick. Worked pretty good. What I did not see was the FAA Form 337 that would have been required to authorize such a modification, nor did I ever see a logbook entry documenting such modification. I have know idea how that plane was passing its annual inspections. smh

There was guy up here trying to do the same thing as this guy in the article. He had some old Czech fighter-trainers (L-29s) on which he mounted rocket launchers. He apparently didn't do all the paperwork right and they tried to get him. He beat it by claiming they we just for display. So then they went after him for money laundering and, if I recall correctly, that stuck. The company he owned is still in business here...somehow...but he's long gone.