Improving accuracy of milsurp

[Readyrod]

I read this in a post once. Someone said he greatly improved the accuracy of his milsurp (7.62x54 I think) by weighing it and disgarding the bullets that weighed too much or too little. He said there was a big variation in bullet weights and figured it affected accuracy. Has anyone tried this? Anyone willing to try? I'm really curious but I can't do it at my current location.
Thanks.

 

[TIMC]

The two biggest improvements to my milsurps accuracy have been the installation of aftermarket triggers and hand loaded ammo.

 

[TonyAngel]

Are you talking about weighing the bullets before loading them or weighing the whole loaded round? If you're talking about weighing the whole loaded round, you're wasting your time.

Milsurp ammo is what it is. It's only meant to deliver 2MOA accuracy, for the most part.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Yes, variations in bullet weight and charge weight will affect accuracy by changing muzzle velocity and barrel harmonics.

The only way to check this on a loaded cartridge is to disassemble the cartridge (pull the bullet) and group the bullets by weight then refill the cartridges with consistent charges. Basically, re manufacture them as hand loaded ammunition.

 

[JustinJ]

The key to accuracy is consistency in as many areas as possible so yes it will increase accuracy. But I'd guess you will have to measure bullet size and charge to see a noticeable improvement.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

heavier bullets tend to be longer and they most times stabilize in flight better.

 

[DaisyCutter]

I knew a guy who used to shoot matches with his "el cheapo" handloads.

He'd pull the bullets from milsurp ammo, empty the powder, then do a precision powder charge and use match bullets in the milsurp primered cases.

 

[BrocLuno]

Nothing wrong with that

 

[Caliper_Mi]

heavier bullets tend to be longer and they most times stabilize in flight better.

Only in the right barrel. Heavier bullets need a faster rifling twist to stabilize properly.

 

[BENBRU]

All about powder weights and bullet weights. Weighing the entire round (depending on the accuracy of the scale used) could yield rounds that are more similar with smaller variations I would guess but there's too many factors. Some brass is heavier than others, some projectiles lighter, powder charges varying greatly... who knows...

The only way to get truly consistent accuracy is match grade ammo, or carefully done handloads... My 1903a3 is a true believer in that statement.

 

[jpwilly]

I've been messing about with mil surps for years. What has worked varies from rifle to rifle. My experimenting with each rifle starts with a baseline of what it will do after the crud has been removed and I've verified headspace is safe. I head out for a range session utilizing a min of 3 or more ammo sources of new commercial ammo, couple of surplus selections and use a Chronograph. You will not get reliable info without one. I've seen huge SD numbers from mil surp ammo explaining why the rifle may shoot more like a scatter gun.

I start with the basics and check for a a nicked or dinged crown, loose fitment of rifle receiver into stock i.e. soft wood due to cosmoline or worn out recoil lug areas. I usually at a minimum bed the tang and or recoil lug recesses. Check for pressure points on barrel try corking the barrel or free floating it. Most triggers are lousy but a great trigger won't get a 6MOA rifle down to 1moa there are other issues.

Ammo is a big factor if the rifle is okay. Slugging the bore may help you figure you where your bore is at. Going from .311 to .313 bullets can make a huge improvement with worn enfields and nagants YMMV.

I have pulled bullets on surp ammo dumped the powder weighed the bullets and made ladder loads reusing the powder to see with the rifle preferred or used new powder. This does help with those SD numbers and they usually will shoot a lot better. New powder is the way to go most times I've been able to get much better results using the old powder as fertilizer.

All this messing about usually shrinks groups by half so 4MOA goes to 2MOA and thats a big improvement. I only have 3 mil sups that shoot close to 1moa regularly out of 10. The rest are still 2-3moa with one I cannot get to shoot at all.

Most importantly have fun.

 

[Daveboone]

If the barrel is beat, there is little you can do to improve the shooting.
I would start by having the headspacing checked, then slug the barrel to be sure it is within bbl industry standards. Is the rifling sharp? Be sure to do a very thorough copper scrub cleaning of the bore. Of course, sights can limit the accuracy potential, and be sure to use a good steady rest for optimal groups.
I agree otherwise the after market triggers can make a great improvement, but many issue triggers can quickly be cleaned up for a clean and consistent break. I gave my 98 Mauser a competition firing pin and spring to increase lock time, and glass beded her. After maximizing the potential of the rifle itself, be sure to stay with loads designed for the parameters the rifle was originally built to be shot with. Only after getting all the ducks in a row do I worry about going super detailed with my target hand loads.

 

[Readyrod]

Ok my mistake, I think it was the cartridge that he weighed, not the bullet only. Would that make a difference?

 

[madcratebuilder]

Ammo is a big factor if the rifle is okay. Slugging the bore may help you figure you where your bore is at. Going from .311 to .313 bullets can make a huge improvement with worn enfields and nagants YMMV.

+10

 

[rodregier]

Technique used by some competitive shooters is called "Mexican match". Pull the factory bullets and replace with match-grade projectiles. If you're going to go that route, a little trick:

Seat the old projectile say .010 deeper first to crack the ashphalt sealant in tha case mouth before pulling the bullet. Pulling will go much easier.

Try just replacing the projectile without remetering the power charge first (assuming same projectile weight). You will likely find the result improved enough that you won't feel compelled to take the remetering step.

I've had good results with the bulk softpoint projectiles by Remington and Winchester. I used the 165g .30 cal softpoints in my Garand for handloads.

 

[W.E.G.]

Accuracy is all about the quality of the following parts, and in this order:
1. shooter skill
2. sights
3. barrel
4. ammo
5. trigger

The rest of the parts just hold those parts together.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Some folks claim improved accuracy with cheap .22 LR by weighing cartridges and keeping for competition the rounds that are close to average and using for plinking the rounds that deviate from the average.

Theoretically it should apply to military surplus ammo as well.

Afterthought: I have encountered mixed lots of 7.62x54R that included ammo loaded with 150gr, 174gr or 181gr bullets. That kind of deviation is easy to spot by weighing.

 

[Orlando]

Yes you can weigh loaded rds and seperate them. In some surplus you will see a big variation in powder weights.
I weigh M2 Ball rds and seperate them into groups. It will help reduce flyers

 

[Motega]

I say waste of time to weigh a whole loaded round... I know from my experiences in archery and a digital grain scale that your breath on the scale will weigh several grains... I think you will be weighing things that have zero effect on accuracy (crud, shelac, etc.) just as often as you would be weighing things that matter. If you are shooting matches I wouldn't think you would be using surplus stuff anyway...

PS anyone who does this please feel free to contact me for receipt of any and all of your unwanted .308.

 

[Orlando]

It does make a difference "if " the ammo is not loaded accuractly with powder charge. You put it into groups of same weights ,I'm talking several grains either way.
In my M2 ball I keep 396-400gr together. Everything else goes for sighters. I will also roll the saved rds on a perfectly flat surface looking for rds that arent seated straight. It does reduce the number of flyers

 

[Readyrod]

Thanks Orlando. I like the idea of rolling the rounds on a flat surface.

 

[rodregier]

The surface rolling thing is to check for bullet runout, which *is* an accuracy killer.

They make gages to measure that too

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

Accurizing the Mosin-Nagant Rifle

The Mosin-Nagant is an accurate rifle, properly set up. You don't have to settle for mediocre accuracy, and neither do you need to make permanent changes. This is my how-to, and are the techniques I personally use. It is not unusual to see 1.5MOA accuracy from the Mosin-Nagant when using these techniques.
The first thing that should be done is to smooth the barrel channel using an appropriate sized dowel rod or socket from a ratchet wrench, wrapped in 320 or so sandpaper. When done, a straight edge should lay flat along the barrel channel.

Lightly oil the cork bedding on both sides.

http://smith-sights.yolasite.com/article-accurizing-mosin-nagant.php

Josh

 

[caribou]

We weighd our .22lr and sorted them according to weight for Biathalon, and there IS a difference, but thats the only example I know of where the whole cartridge was weighed.

As to a Mosin, give it a try when you buy it. Use the ammo you plan to hunt/shoot with.

I use Czeck light ball, it is VERY consistant, and if you go to the Hunting section, I posted under "Brownbears and Wolves" , you can see just how accurate an Issued M-39 variation of a Mosin is, with good milsurp cartridges.

As for tuning, I start with a good clean rifle, make sure my action is good, tighten the stock screws and shoot. Then I adjust my barrel bands with tightening or loosening, as that very often makes a big difference, clean and hone my trigger working surfaces, and if that doesent work, and teh barrel crown is good,I might shim the stock up a bit. Thats always been as far as I needed to go, never had to chop stocks or goof with any metal.

Anyway, there you go, comnsistant ammo is where its at, same weight and charge should get it where you want it every time.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Orlando
I will also roll the saved rds on a perfectly flat surface looking for rds that arent seated straight. It does reduce the number of flyers

Readyrod
Thanks Orlando. I like the idea of rolling the rounds on a flat surface.

That how I check my reloads before matches: if the bullet nose wobbles as it rolls, it goes in the "foulers" section with an X marked on the base. I thought I had thought of something unique.