In order, what are the weakest to strongest rifle chamberings?

[scythefwd]

I mean (and Ill probably only be able to get a few, mostly in the wrong order)
.22lr .22 swift (here I am really fuzzy, 25-06, .30-30, 243, 270, 308/30-06 since they use the same projectile and at the same velocities) type list as an example.

I know I left out the 7.62X xx series as I don't know where they fall in. I know the .30-30 is pretty anemic by todays standards, .243 is considered a good load to start with for children who hunt but is it stronger than the .30-30, 270 is much stronger than .30-30, etc. I only need to go up to about 300 weatherby, (is that stronger than the 45-70 in power, its more accurate). There doesn't appear to be anyway of telling power capabilities just by round without a lot of homework. I'm just hoping to get some of you who have already done it to share. I don't need the oddball rounds that you have to hunt for, but the most common ones would be nice. Who wants to take a shot at it? It's not like I can call you out (unless I have load info on it, and that is still a lot of compairing considering a possible 25 loads per chambering). To me, it's like there isn't any way to know without the manufacturer telling you that the .32H&R has more umph than a .38.

 

[gvnwst]

Weakest to strongest in Muzzle Energy?

If so, the list from 17 cal to 30 cal, even common ones would be enormous. I will try to come back later with a list, but others may beat me to it.

 

[scythefwd]

gvnwst, I thank you for any effort you can get. That is the reason I said popular calibers. How many people are really shooting the .30 herret or the 7.35mm Italian carcano? You can pretty much leave those out.

 

[Sistema1927]

And the reason for this exercise is?

Are you talking about maximum loads for a caliber or "standard"?

Are you looking for velocity, muzzle energy, a combination, or...?

Are you thinking about a certain barrel length?

Too many variables.

 

[RP88]

I can think of at least 100 caliber/bullet types. It would be best if you shrunk your expectations and asked for more popular rounds instead of all of them, because that'll be a huge list...

 

[scythefwd]

average, middle of the road store bought loads. The gun for this is the exact same gun with only the bore size and chamber changing (all other things exactly the same). Assuming a perfectly stabalized bullet, which carries the most umph out to say 300y (arbitrary but shootable with irons). Gun weight, length, length of barrel, and action (bolt, so there is no loss of pressure as gasses excape at the very last microsecond lowering pressure a miniscule amount). I am just basically asking for my own education and hoping to use what others have learned before me. I am on a dial up connection, so researching all of this online is a bit difficult. I can get mv and weight, but there is more to it than that (bullet shape, etc.). Many people can flat say a 22lr is weaker than a 17 mag, which will be weaker than a 270. If we get the list going early, the rearrangements can be worked out later to reflect the concensus of the data provided.

 

[scythefwd]

rp88, I did ask for only the popular rounds. The ones you are most likely to find in an ammo department at a gun store. I can guarantee there are many that aren't "common". to start with, lets go with the
.22lr
.17 rem
22 hornet
222
223
256
25-35
257 rem roberts
25-06
.30-30
6mm (in what ever the most common length, arguably, is)
243
270
7mm
8mm
7.63 X54 (common enough)
30-06
308
300 rem
300 wsm.

 

[sarduy]

that's a looooong list but look bellow!

 

[Neo-Luddite]

"Can you be more...specific?"

~Ohm-- electronic 'deity' of the masses in the early George Lucas film THX 1138

 

[gvnwst]

Okay, early list.

.22lr will be the starting point.
.17 hmr
.22wmr
.221 rem fireball
.223 rem
30-30 win
.243 win
.257 roberts
.260 rem
7mm-08
.25-06
.270
.308(i am doing this off the top of my head, so pardon any mistakes. just post what i did wrong)
30-06
.300 win mag
.300 wby mag

this is a list of the most basic cartridges, tell another and i will put it in the list, or make your own

Wait, crap, you already made one. HOW did i miss that!?

 

[sarduy]

Rifle's Caliber (Complete)

Rimfire

Rimfire ammunition, from left to right, .22 Short, .22 Long Rifle, .22 WMR, .17 HM2, .17 HMR.17 Hornady Mach 2 (.17HM2)
.17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire(.17HMR)
.22 Long
.22 Long Rifle
.22 Short
.22 WMR (.22 Magnum)
.22 WRF
5mm Remington Mag

[edit] Common Centerfire

From left to right: .17 HM2, .17 HMR, .22LR, .22 WMR, .17/23 SMc, 5mm/35 SMc, .22 Hornet, .223 Remington, .223 WSSM, .243 Winchester, .243 Winchester Improved (Ackley), .25-06 Remington, .270 Winchester, .308, .30-06, .45-70, .50-90 Sharps
[edit] Inches
.17 Remington
.17 Remington Fireball (based on the wildcat .17 Mach IV)
.17-357 RG
.204 Ruger
.218 Bee
.219 Zipper
.22-250 Remington (.22-250 Ackley Improved)
.22 Hornet
.22 PPC
.22 BR Remington
.220 Russian
.220 Swift
.221 Remington Fireball
.222 Remington
.222 Remington Magnum
.223 Remington (.223 AI)
.223 WSSM
.224 Weatherby Magnum
.225 Winchester
.244 Remington (6 mm Remington)
.240 Weatherby Magnum
.243 Winchester (.243 AI)
.243 WSSM
.244 H&H Magnum
.250-3000 Savage
.256 Winchester Magnum
.256 Newton
.25-06 Remington
.25-20 Winchester
.25-35 Winchester (6.5 x 52R)
.25 Remington
.25 WSSM
.257 Roberts (.257 Roberts +P) (.257 Roberts Ackley Improved)
.257 Weatherby Magnum
.260 Remington
.264 Winchester Magnum
.270 Weatherby Magnum
.270 Winchester
.270 WSM (Winchester Short Magnum)
.270 Sabi
.276 Pedersen
.280 British
.280 Remington (a.k.a.7 mm Express Remington)
.280 Ross (a.k.a.280 Rimless Nitro Express)
.284 Winchester
.30 Carbine
.30 Newton
.30 Remington
.30 TC
.30-30 Winchester
.30-06 Springfield
.30-40 Krag(.30 Army)
.30-378 Weatherby Magnum
.300 Savage
.300 Remington SA Ultra Mag
.300 WSM (Winchester Short Magnum)
.300 Winchester Magnum
.300 H&H Magnum
.300 Weatherby Magnum
.300 Remington Ultra Magnum
.303 British
.303 Savage
.307 Winchester
.308 Marlin Express
.308 Norma Magnum
.308 Winchester
.32-20 Winchester (.32 WCF, .32-20 Marlin, .32 Colt Lightning)
.32-40 Ballard
.32-40 Winchester
.32 Remington
.32 Winchester self loading
.32 Winchester Special
.325 WSM (Winchester Short Magnum)
.33 Winchester (.33 WCF)
.338-378 Weatherby Magnum
.338 Federal
.338 Lapua Magnum
.338 Remington Ultra Magnum
.338 Sabi
.338 Winchester Magnum
.340 Weatherby Magnum
.348 Winchester
.35 Newton
.35 Remington
.35 Whelen
.35 Whelen Improved
.35 Winchester
.350 Remington Magnum
.351 Winchester Self-Loading
.356 Winchester
.358 Norma Magnum
.358 Winchester
.375 H&H Magnum
.375 Ruger
.375 Remington Ultra Magnum
.375 Weatherby Magnum
.375 Whelen (.375-06)
.375 Winchester
.376 Steyr
.378 Weatherby Magnum
.38-40 Winchester
.38-55 Winchester
.40-60 Remington
.400 H&H Magnum
.400 Tembo
.401 Winchester Self Loading
.404 Jeffery (10.75 x 73)
.405 Winchester
.408 CheyTac
.416 Remington Magnum
.416 Rigby
.416 Weatherby Magnum
.43 mauser (11mm x 60 mauser)
.44-40 Winchester
.44 Remington Magnum
.444 Marlin
.45-70 Government
.45-90 Sharps
.450 Bushmaster
.450 Marlin
.450 Rigby
.458 Lott
.458 Sabi
.458 Winchester Magnum
.460 Weatherby Magnum
.465 H&H Magnum
.470 Nitro Express

From left to right: .50 BMG, 300 Win Mag, .308 Winchester, 7.62 Soviet, 5.56 NATO, .22LR
[edit] Metric
5.45x39mm
5.6x50mm Magnum
5.6 x 52R (.22 Savage Hi-Power)
5.6x57mm
5.6x57Rmm
5.6 x 61 SE (5.6 x 61 Vom Hofe Super Express)
5.56x30mm
5.56x45mm NATO
5.7x28mm
5.8x42mm DBP87
6 mm BR Remington
6 mm PPC
6 mm Musgrave
6 mm Remington (.244 Remington)
6.5-284
6.5 mm Remington Magnum
6.5 mm Grendel
6.5x50mm Arisaka
6.5x52mm Mannlicher-Carcano
6.5x53mmR Mannlicher
6.5x54mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer Greek
6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser
6.5x57mm Mauser
6.5x68mm (also known as the 6.5 x 68 RWS, 6.5 x 68 Schüler or the 6.5 x 68 Von Hofe Express)
6.8 mm Remington SPC
7 mm caliber
7 mm-08 Remington
7-30 Waters
7 mm BR Remington
7 mm Express Remington (a.k.a. .280 Remington)
7 mm Remington Magnum
7 mm Remington SA Ultra Mag
7 mm Remington Ultra Magnum
7 mm STW
7 mm Weatherby Magnum
7 mm WSM (Winchester Short Magnum)
7x33mm Sako
7x57mm Mauser (.275 Rigby)
7x61mm Sharpe & Hart
7x64mm Brenneke
7.5x55mm Schmidt Rubin
7.5x57mm MAS mod. 1924 7.5x54mm MAS mod. 1929
7.62 mm caliber
7.62x25mm Tokarev
7.62x38mmR
7.62x39mm
7.62x45mm vz. 52
7.62x51mm NATO
7.62 x 54R (rimmed) (7.62 Russian)
7.63x25mm Mauser
7.65 mm Parabellum
7.65x53mm Mauser (7.65 Argentine)
7.65x53mmR
7.63x54mm Greek Mannlicher-Schoenauer
7.7x58mm Arisaka
7.92x33mm Kurz
7.92x57mm Mauser (8 mm Mauser or 8x57 JS)
8 mm Lebel
8 mm Remington Magnum
8x50mmR
8x56mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer
8x56mmR
8x60mm Spitz
8x68mm S
9x45mm
9x56mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer
9x57mm Mauser
9.3x57mm
9.3x62mm
9.3x64mm Brenneke
9.3x66mm Sako
9.3x72mmD
9.3x74mmR
9.5x57mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer (.375 Rimless Nitro Express x 2-1/4")
10.75x57mm
11x60mm Mauser

[edit] Wildcats - Obscure - Proprietary

[edit] Inches
.14/221
.14-222
.14 Walker Hornet
.17-223
.17 Ackley Bee
.17 CCM
.17 Hornet
.17 PMC/Aguila
.17 Mach IV (now commercialized as .17 Remington Fireball)
.17 PPC
.17/23 SMC
.17-357 RG (.172" Wildcat based on the 357 SIG)
.19 Calhoon Hornet
.19 Badger
.19-223
.20 VarTarg
.20 Tactical
.219 Donaldson Wasp
.222 Rimmed
.22/303
.22-243 Middlestead
.223 AI
.240 Apex (.240 Belted Nitro Express and .240 Magnum Flanged)
.25/303
.275 H&H Magnum
.30 USA
.30-03
.30-06 JDJ
.300 Dakota
.300 ICL Grizzly
.300 Lapua Magnum
.300 Whisper
.330 Dakota
.338-06 A-Square
.338 Whisper (Series 1)
.338 Whisper (Series 2)
.338 Voschol
.338 x 57 O'Connor
.375 Dakota
.375 Whisper (Series 2)
.40-65 Winchester
.40-70 Sharps
.408 Chey Tac
.416 Barrett
.416 Taylor
.416 Whisper (Series 2)
.425 Westley Richards
.45-90 Sharps
.45-110 Sharps
.45-120 Sharps
.450 Watts Magnum
.458 SOCOM
.470 Capstick
.475 OKH
.475 Ackley

[edit] Metric
4.5mm mkr
5mm Craig
5mm/35 SMc
6-06
6-284
6 mm BRX
6 mm Dasher
6 mm XC
6x45 mm
6 x 47 Swiss Match (6mm/222 Mag)
6.5 Grendel
6.5 x 47 Lapua
6.5 x 57
7 mm Dakota
7.82 Lazzeroni Patriot
7.82 Lazzeroni Warbird
10 x 35 Vetterli

[edit] Very Large Caliber (.50 and larger)

[edit] Inches
.50-70 Government
.50-90 Sharps
.50-140 Sharps
.50 Alaskan
.50 Beowulf
.50 BMG
.50 Peacekeeper
.500 Black Powder Express
.500 Jeffrey Nitro Express
.500 Nitro Express 3"
.500/450 Nitro Express
.500/465 Nitro Express
.505 Gibbs
.505 Jeffery
.510 DTC Europ
.510 Fat Mac
.510 Whisper
.550 Magnum
.550 Nitro Express
.577 Nitro Express
.577 Tyrannosaur (.577 T-Rex)
.577 Snider
.577/450 Martini-Henry
.585 Nyati
.600 Nitro Express
.600/577 REWA
.600 Overkill
.700 Nitro Express
.750 Hornady
.950 JDJ

[edit] Metric
12.7x99mm Multi-Purpose
12.7x108mm
14.5x114mm
14.5 mm JDJ
15.2 mm Steyr Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot (APFSDS)
20x110mm Hispano
30x165mm
30x173 mm

 

[scythefwd]

gvnwst, you have .308 in there twice. Is it safe to assume the .30-30 would be between the .223 and the .243?

 

[scythefwd]

sardoy,
Maybe we can narrow that list down abit. How bout the list I posted earlier in the thread? That is one hell of a list though. Im not interested in rimfire, very large caliber, obscure or anything over .300 weatherby in down range energy. That help narrow it down a bit? Also, can you really find 6mm - 6.8mm all in one well stocked gunstore on an average day? I am relatively new to anything but the most common calibers (30-06, 270, .22lr, and .30-30). I didn't have anything obscure around growing up (well, there were the sks, but they aren't really obscure). I grew up in a place where you could only hunt with shotguns, so everything else wasn't very common.

 

[Tacbandit]

Scythefwd,
Good thing you only asked for the popular ones, eh...? Ones that you could find ammo for...

 

[cliffy]

.243 Winchester as some sort of standard

A .243 Winchester full-boat load out-performs "POWERWISE:" .22 Hornet, .222Remington, .223 Remington, .222 Remington Magnum, 6.8mm SPC, 7.62x39mm, most other 6mm target loads, many .25 caliber factory loads, .30/30 loads, and etc. To really surpass .243 Winchester prowess, start at 6.5mm (.264 Winchester Magnum) and .270 Winchester and work upward in perceived recoil. No free lunches regarding flinching beyond .243 Winchester fury. cliffy

 

[Tacbandit]

There's a boatload of useful info....great explanation...good stuff, Cliffy

 

[scythefwd]

Tac,
Thanks for the laugh. I knew it would be a huge undertaking, but that is where open source development and research work best. They allow everyone to contribute one fact to make the whole that much better. I was also counting on general knowledge starting us off (like we all know the .22 short is weaker than the .22lr, which is weaker than the .222). I was also hoping someone who shot the .17 mm rem mag would say that it is definately stronger down range than the .222. He would know that as he has already done the homework when he purchased his firearm. This isn't just mining peoples ability to research, its mining their personal research that they have already conducted for themselves and their experience.

 

[RP88]

caliber/bullet model load size bullet type - velocity - energy in ft-lbs *extra notes*

according to the highly biased and potentially WRONG wikipedia entries:

I arranged it in how hard you'll get hit by one on average

.22LR FMJ - 1,100f/s - 104ft-lbs
22 hornet 45 gr SP - 2,787 ft/s - 776 ft-lbs
.17 rem BT - 4,400f/s - 874 ft-lbs
5.45x39 50 gr 5N7 FMJ - 915 m/s - 971 ft-lbs
.222 Rem 50 gr SP - 3,168 ft/s - 1,115 ft-lbs
5.8x42 64 gr FMJ - 930 m/s - 1,300 ft-lbs
.25-35 75 gr JFP - 2,815 ft/s - 1,320 ft-lbs
.223 Rem - 60 gr NP - 3,160 ft/s - 1,330 ft-lbs
7.62x39 123 gr - 710 m/s - 1,510 ft-lbs *I've seen figures saying that the ft-lb force is a good 300 more than that, though...*
6.8 spc 115 gr - 800 m/s - 1,759 ft-lbs *from 24" barrel*
.30-30 130 gr FP - 2,496 ft/s - 1,799 ft-lbs
6.5 grendel 120 gr FMJBT - 820 m/s - 1,942 ft-lbs *from 24" barrel*
.243 Rem 90 gr SP - 3,203 ft/s - 2,051 ft-lbs
6.5x55 Swede mauser - 140 gr SP - 810 m/s - 2,185 ft-lbs
.257 rem roberts 90 gr HPBT - 3,368 ft/s - 2,267 ft-lbs
25-06 120 gr SP - 2,991 ft/s - 2,384 ft-lbs
7.62x51 NATO 147 gr - 840 m/s - 2,472 ft-lbs
.308 win 150 gr NP - 860 m/s - 2,648 ft-lbs
270 win 130 gr SP - 3,085 ft/s - 2,748 ft-lbs
7.62 X54R 150 gr - 900 m/s - 2,905 ft-lbs
8mm mauser 187 gr - 820 m/s - 3,000 ft-lbs
7mm rem mag - 150 gr BT - 3,110 ft/s - 3,221 ft-lbs
30-06 180 gr NP - 880 m/s - 3,300 ft-lbs
300 rem ultra mag 180 gr HPBT - 900 m/s - 3,489 ft-lbs

 

[scythefwd]

Cliffy, thanks, modifying list

 

[scythefwd]

RP, you rock.

I have to say the 7.62 x 39 looks a little low on the list to me as well. My reloading manual has it about 200 fps quicker. That should put it at 2296. Where is a ballistic calc that I can put those numbers into for energy?

 

[scythefwd]

you have the .308 weaker than the 270? I thought it was closer to the -06.

I have a 150gr moving at 2937 fps instead of 2365., but again this is for reloads and probably not representative of what is on the shelves.

 

[RP88]

be sure to check load sizes and bullet types listed before you yell at me. You'll notice that I mostly picked out what I may recall as the average load-sized bullets in soft-point, FMJ, etc. If we include more BT'd, increased loads, and hollow-points, then alot of everything above .223 will be significantly harder-hitting.

also, if you look at the wiki article for 7.62x39, you'll see alot of bias in it. Someone who loved his AR upper in 6.5 or whatever probably lost an argument to an AK shooter and had to find a way to make his gun's feelings perk up a bit.

I'd say that the stat is pretty low, even out of a 16" barrel. Five bucks says that it has to hit at at least 1800+ ft-lbs, considering that it hits cinder blocks about as hard as Chuck Norris' heel on a backspin. I'd also say that the 6.5 and 6.8 ones would go down somewhat significantly if done out of a standard 20" barrel (and moreso from the M4's 14.5" barrel). The details on those are rather vague, since they are test stats that could have come from some REALLY nifty barrels.

but whatever. Gives you a rough idea.

 

[scythefwd]

I'm not yelling. I was just noticing the differences from what I expected. I agree with ya on the 7.62 X 39. I also only have access to reload data right now, which isn't market rounds. I'll probably be using your list in a spreadsheet (so I can sort, and add info later as I get it). Once I am happy, or somewhat happy with it, I will post it online using google docs and paste a link in it. Give me about 2 weeks to work on it. I'll be hitting a couple of manufacturers websites to check their muzzle velocities and try to find a ballistic calculator to get energy.

Thanks for all the contributions everyone. I am going to have a bit of work coming up just working with that info alone. Especially if I can get a calculator. That will allow me to work with "starting loads" and "max loads" for a certain bullet weight (trying to get as close as possible to same weights as well).
I wouldn't take your bet on the 1800 ft-lbs. You are probably right From what it looks like, it is neck and neck with the .30-30 for speed and weight. That should give a very similar energy rating. It does have larger surface area though, so at 300y, it probably is a little less if using a BT bullet in the .30-30 (leverloution, 2300 fps if I remember right, corelokt is at 2200 fps for a 160 and 170 gr bullet respectivly).

 

[Jst1mr]

Good simple chart for basics

http://gunnersden.com/index.htm.rifle-cartridges-ballistics.html

 

[RP88]

guess the x39 figure wasnt too off. Still doesnt make sense to me though, but whatever. I guess the Russians know magic or something (and are way better at math than I am )