inconsistancy

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remmag

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hey all
due to my misunderstanding of cartridge lenght i iam seating my bullets a little deeper
my problem is when i set my die (lee seating die with crimp on a lee turret press) and i get it seating a bullet to exactly 1.235 the next bullet i seat will be a different lenth ,marbe a little longer or shorter,
i cant figure out why they are not seating to consistant lengths
thanks for any help
 
Are you measuring over all length? Or just seating depth. How much longer or shorter? Because some cases could be a bit longer or shorter if you havent trimmed them. It would help if you could provide a bit more information.

Bass
 
measuring oal . trying to get it to 1.235 .any where from 1.235 to 1.234 to 1.236.
but never to 1.235 every pull
these bullets have been seated once to 1.275 but needed to go in a little futher, i have a feeling it is how i have the die set for the taper crimp
thanks
 
You again? I thought we solved all your issues last week! :D

Listing a cartridge would be nice. I seem to remember you were doing 45ACP.

Some of the issue is in your press. Most of the issue is usually in the dies. Generally speaking, if you are aiming for 1.235 and get 1.235+/-.008 on middle range loads, then you're OK. The lower the pressure the greater the tolerance on the OAL. The higher the pressure (the closer you get to "max load") the more critical your OAL becomes.

• What bullets are you seating? (FP, RN, HP ???)
• What is the shape of your seater die anvil?
• More expensive dies give you choices on seating anvils, so that you can push on different bullet in different ways.

Attached is a graphic that demonstrates how pushing on a FP bullet with a RN seating anvil could cause variations in OAL.

Hope this helps. ;)
 

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yes, me again
the caliber is 45 pc
bullets 200 grain led, rounded sides to a blunt nose, bought em at a gun show,rnfp is on the bag not sure what that stands for
\as for the shape of the die i am not sure but it is a lee 45 die set
thanks for the drawing and help
 
Remmie -
Good to talk to you again. It's as I said above... variation comes from the press and the dies, but mostly from the dies. Obviously, it can also be affected by the press operation speed, but after awhile you'll learn to pull on the lever the same way over-and-over.

So despite the protestations of a few, there is a difference in what you buy and it does affect the outcome.

All the Lee dies I own only have a single RN seating anvil. You are using Round Nose Flat Point bullets, which should be pushed on with a flat anvil. The variations you are seeing (+/-.001") are completely normal, but if you want to minimize that you need a flat anvil. What's happening is "force per area". In this case, the seating force divided by the area of the bullet the anvil is pushing on. As with the illustration previously given (above) the RN anvil is pushing on only a tiny portion of the flat nose bullet. The soft lead gives way to various degrees under the seating force. Thus you end up with variations in OAL depending upon how much the lead is smashed.

Your present dies can certainly be modified, but would then be poor for RN. If FP is all you intend to ever shoot, then any hobby machinist can fix that for you. If you want, I can do it. It's a simple matter for anyone with a metal lathe.

I'm really glad you're being careful. But in this case it seems to be unwarranted.

All the best.
 
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that makes perfect sence
i will just get round nose bullets from here out
 
any where from 1.235 to 1.234 to 1.236.
Normal is .005" to .010" max http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi
Seating depth variations

There are a number of possible causes for overall length variation. One is the way it is measured. If you measure overall length from the tip of the bullet to the base of the case, remember to subtract the variation due to bullet length tolerance. The bullets will vary in length due to manufacturing tolerances (bullets with exposed lead noses are the worst in this regard) and this will add to the overall cartridge length variation. Remember that the bullet seater plug does not (or shouldn't) contact the tip of the bullet when seating, but contacts farther down the ogive. For a more accurate seating depth measurement, take the seater plug out of the bullet seating die, place it on top of the cartridge and measure from the base of the case to the top of the seater plug.

Another possible cause for bullet seating depth variation is seating and crimping at the same time when trying to apply a firm crimp to untrimmed cases. Variation in case length also causes variation in the amount of crimp applied. Long cases get a heavier crimp than short ones. When seating and crimping at the same time, the crimp is formed as the bullet is seated into the case. The crimp will form sooner on a long case, and therefore the bullet will not be seated as deeply. The solution is to seat and crimp in a separate step and/or trim cases to a uniform length.

The amount of force required to cycle a progressive press varies with the number of cases in the shell plate. When the shell plate is full, it is harder to lower the lever than when there are one or two cases present. This can lead to variation in cartridge overall length because there are different loads placed on the working parts of the press. When the shell plate is full, seating depth will be slightly long, because the load is higher and all of the clearances are taken up. With the shell plate nearly empty, the load is not great enough to squeeze out these clearances, and the seating depth is short
 
For the most part the measuring tools are just too precise for an operation that's using equipment and material that's not precise in overall dimensions and tolerances. Turret presses have flex and movement in them that in itself doesn't lead to repeatability.

The culprit though is most likely the bullet and the seating stem plugs fit as the stem engages the bullet (see the illustration below). When seating you induce some aberration due to how much force you use to seat the bullet. The bullet relationship in the seater can change either by the slightly different shape and where the seater contacts it or it can allow the bullet to be pushed into the stem slightly further. Since your measuring tool is giving you .001" measurements small changes are observed. For the most part it doesn't make much difference for most uses except maybe precision long range shooting in which case the loader needs to upgrade to more precise loading equipment and methods.
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