Inconsistent / Ragged Hornady 68 gr 224 BTHP Meplats

[elChupacabra!]

I'm continuing on my quest to find a very accurate bullet / load for my AR, and have only gotten down to about 1" at 100m consistently with my reloads. I have a DPMS Stainless 20" HB .223 match barrel in there with a 1/8 twist, so I had bought some Nosler 77gr OTM bullets, but despite my best efforts with Varget and RL15, can only get about 1 MOA out of it (sometimes a hair better with 23.4gr Varget, but my rifle HATES RL15 - we're talking 2-3 MOA or worse). The problem is that I can get about 1 MOA from Hornady 55gr FMJBT bulk M193 bullets and H335, and SUB MOA with Ultramax 68gr factory reloads, so I know my rifle can do better than MOA with good bullets.

Well, I figured my rifle just wants a good bullet that's less than 77gr, even though I thought it should be able to handle it, so I just wandered over to the Reloader's Bench in Mount Juliet, TN (great shop BTW!) on my lunch break and bought 100 Hornady 68gr BTHPs. I've got 3 loads figured out (RL15, Varget, H335) and plan to load work-ups for them up tonight - so I open the little box to see what's inside, and I'm very suprised to see how raggedy / uneven the meplats are on these bullets! I mean they are terrible - variation of (eyeballing it - don't keep my calipers with me at work ) maybe as much as .005-.08", maybe more? Hard to tell.

Now I've read that variation at the tip is normal, but I've gotta say this appears FAR worse than with the Nosler 77gr OTMs - those were incredibly consistent - very clean, sharp, concentric openings at the tip. I've done some searches and see a so-called meplat trimmer advocated by some benchrest types, but I don't know if want to get into that for shooting at 100m with an AR...

My question is, did I get a bad box of bullets - should I drive back there and get my money back, or is this really normal? Will this adversely affect my work-ups - because I plan to use these bullets to TRY to get sub-MOA from my rifle.

How much variation is acceptable?

Thanks guys!

 

[30Cal]

I don't think you're going to see a difference where your at (1MoA). If you were inside a half minute to begin with, then maybe.

 

[elChupacabra!]

30Cal -

That was kinda my impression with the meplat trimmer... I'm sure if I wanted to print 5" groups at 1000 yards, every little detail might be worth it, but that's not really the case here. What I do want is to consistently be within 1MOA - I'd be happy with .75MOA if I could find a load that would do it all the time. I think I'm getting close to the correct bullet weight, and with some careful work-ups in .3gr increments with 3 different powders, I feel like I should find out just about the max of what my rifle can do... assuming these bullets are good enough to do that for me.

Like I said earlier, I've always heard people talk about the raggedy edge of OTM bullets, but the Noslers were my first real experience with OTM bullets and they were FANTASTIC, so I'm still figuring out what's normal and what's not.

 

[ReloaderFred]

What you really want to measure is the weight of the bullets, and see how consistant it is. If they are all the same weight, or within a couple tenths of a grain, then don't trim them. Actually shooting them will tell you if any other measures are required.

Bullets are formed on punch presses, and in the case of the bullet in question, the base is formed and then the nose of the jacket is formed in the last step. It's the base and bearing surface you worry about, along with weight, when considering accuracy for most rifle bullets.

I've gotten best accuracy in .223 with Winchester 748, so you might consider trying that.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[elChupacabra!]

Fred,

Thanks for the advice - I knew that OTM bullets were designed as such to promote consistency at the base rather than the tip, and I have heard that it's suprisingly UN-important how consistent the tip is as long as the base / ogive are consistent, so you're reinforcing what I had heard, but I just wanted to be sure before I spent a couple hours trickling powder just to have bullets that are botched from the start and wouldn't produce good groups to begin with.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I've had some really ugly bullets shoot great, and some really pretty ones shoot not so great. The proof will be on the target as to whether they're matched to your rifle or not.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Slamfire]

I have shot, and am using the Hornady's 68's, and you can shoot high X counts cleans with them out to 300 yards. They are excellent bullets.

As for the front end of the bullet. I was at an Across the course match, at 300 yards, and we had a delay. The delay was after our sighters, so the match director gave us another sighting shot.

The conditions had not changed, so I decided to conduct a "science" experiment. I took my leatherman tool and proceded to crunch the heck out of my 168 SMK bullet tip, and then, used the wire cutter tool to make a diagonal cut across the tip.

Fired the thing, and it was a pin wheel X. No joke, the thing was in the middle of the X.

I stopped worrying about the front end of the bullet after that.

But the back of the bullet, don't make any tiny scratches back there.

 

[elChupacabra!]

Slamfire1,

Alright, you've convinced me - I'll give the Hornadys a fair chance

And Fred, I can appreciate what you're saying about how it shoots - those Noslers are beautiful but weren't exactly what my rifle wanted for short ranges, and maybe these slightly blemished Hornadys will do better up close.

I'm sure that for mid-range shooting (300-600m) the Noslers might give me an edge due to their BC and weight, intrinsic accuracy aside... but I'm not yet into competing, just shooting, and the only range I have access to is 100m long, so for now I want absolute top accuracy out of at least one load at that range.

The funny thing is that my Hornady 55gr FMJBT M193s, bulk packaging, $77 / 1,000 from MidwayUSA are the best shooting handloads I've come up with yet... although hopefully these 68-grainers will put them in their place

 

[jim147]

You never know till you try.
I have two rifles that a almost identical. One likes heavy bullets one light. Same twist in both. The one that likes light bullets prefers the cheaper bullets too. It is always a fun learning experience. Just don't get frustrated and keep trying.

 

[elChupacabra!]

Well, here's a range report - I took my workups out today (H335, Varget, RL15) and shot them all, and was able to manage at least one MOA or better group out of each set, with Varget in particular reaching .75 MOA and H335 at about .80 MOA, followed by RL15 at just shy of 1.0 MOA. All in all, I'm happy with these results, and they just confirm what everybody told me that the condition of the meplat isn't nearly as important as one might assume.

Thanks again for all the advice everybody

 

[bullseye308]

I've had the same fun with a 308 and learned almost the same thing the long hard way. I love reloader's bench Let me know when you head that way again, you may be passing me on the way there. I gotta get there this week for more powder.

 

[NuJudge]

For the AR, I've found that 52gr match bullets shoot better than anything else. My favorite load is 26.5gr 748, a CCI regular or match primer, in a LC or Winchester case. It will shoot little knots at 100 yards, and if there is no wind will shoot well under 2" at 200 yards.

With the AR, pay attention to consistent head positioning. I find it useful to put my right nostril touching the left lobe of the charging handle. Once I worked out consistent head positioning, my groups shrank a lot.

CDD

 

[elChupacabra!]

NuJudge - that's interesting about the 52gr Match bullets - I should probably give them a try. I've heard lots of good things about them, but after finally completing something like 10 different workups (at 25 rounds per each! ), I'm ready to just SHOOT THE RIFLE for a little while But when I do need more bullets... I'll pick up a box and see what I can get them to do.

And also regarding head position, I can appreciate that too - I've been working on the fundamentals (natural point of aim, breath control, trigger control, bone support, sling use, all that fun stuff) for a while now and am finally getting close to the level I'd like to be at, and I'm now noticing that slight errors in sight alignment may be my next focus point. From the Standing, Kneeling or Sitting position, my head is usually about halfway or one third of the way back from the rear sight aperture, so I feel like sight alignment is usually better there, but from Prone, with my eye right up there at the rear sight, a little change can make a BIG difference. I'll try your reference point of nose to charging handle and see if I can improve my groups there, too.

Bullseye308 - I may well be heading out to the Reloaders Bench sometime this week, or next - time for a few more pounds of powder for me, too - I'll let you know when I'm going, maybe I'll see you there