inefficiency of government and the sks

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hiltstck

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Our government spends $500 billion dollars per year on defense. At that rate, the taxpayers could buy 1 SKS, 1000 rounds of ammo, 1 cleaning kit, 1 lock, 1 case, and 1 gun safety course for every man, woman, and child residing in the United States within 6 months.

While I am not suggesting our government should do this, I think it illustrates how our government is incapable of using taxpayer money wisely. $2 billion dollar stealth bombers are cool, but I can't think of a better deterrent than 300 million rifles and 300 billion rounds of ammunition.

Note: The intent of this post is to illustrate the inefficiency/corruption in government and also to reiterate how the best defense is a well armed militia.
 
I can't think of a better deterrent than 300 million rifles and 300 billion rounds of ammunition.


How many missiles with nuclear warheads would this deter?
 
What does "skim much" mean? (sorry for the ignorance on that)

I have thought about the nuclear missile/bomber/etc issue. Do you think that nukes are a deterrent to nukes? That is what I was taught in school, but I was also taught that the Federal Reserve ensures economic stability...

If a group of people want to murder 100,000 people and have a nuke, it can be delivered in a crate in a truck. Star wars programs and submarines full of ICBMs can't prevent that. And obviously, neither can border patrol. That's not supposed to be an insult to the individuals who are in border patrol, I just think it's an extremely difficult task for any country larger than the Vatican.

I also think that foreign policy has a lot to do with it. In other words, it might be easier to simply not encourage attacks instead of constantly trying to prevent them.
 
How many missiles with nuclear warheads would this deter?

Well, in fairness, how many more missiles does our current nuke inventory deter vs only having 20 or 30?

Do we really NEED 3,696 nuclear warheads as a deterrent? We could save enough to give everyone a rifle and ammo if we'd lose a couple thousand of those things!

The idea of an armed and trained citizenry isn't crazy. In fact, that's what the CMP was originally started for, and why we can all get cheap Garands.

To the OP's point though, I might be sick if the gov started handing out SKSs. Let's keep it to AR's and Garands or something like that :)

And, the "best" defense isn't really an armed militia, but it's a really good one for some things. It's better at defending from internal enemies than external it seems to me.

Fun topic, not really legal though.
 
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Note: The intent of this post is to illustrate the inefficiency/corruption in government and also to reiterate how the best defense is a well armed militia.

Wow. It did neither. The notion of buying an inferior or outdated product in higher numbers says absolutely nothing about efficiency, corruption, or how such an endeavor would result in being the best defense.

The $500 billion (or whatever the number actually is) spent on defense isn't just for rifles and ammo. As noted, buying everyone a rifle and ammo won't stop a nuclear attack. It certainly wouldn't be worth a darn for stopping any sort of aerial attack. Such weapons would be nearly useless to stop an armed vehicle attack.
 
Why buy citizens rifles when they will do it themselves...

Besides, having the Federal or State governments buying rifles and ammunition would carry some form of obligation for training, registration of all guns, etc... No thanks.

While I do believe that nukes deter nukes owned by rational nations and leaders, our big concern needs to be securing our boarders and checking 100% of cargo entering the USA to prevent foreign terrorism.

Yes, ANY national run program is wildly inefficient. Having served in the military, I see the wild inefficiencies. We have very hard working and talented people, but the reason things get done is the massive spending and sheer numbers of people working.
 
It doesn't have to be an SKS. If you like the AR-15 better, then make it that. Then 6 months will need to change to 1 year, but the idea is the same.

Bombers, tanks, and missiles are very good for destroying bombers, tanks, and missiles. I am not a big student of history, but every attempt to conquer I am aware of came down to an individual shooting at another individual. Vietnam, the Soviets in Afghanistan, the Americans in Iraq...

I don't think it was Switzerland's air force that kept Hitler out.

We can argue the details, and that is fine, that is fun. But, James Madison(?) was correct in writing the 2nd Amendment the way he did. Also, $47,000 to operate an F-22 for one hour doesn't seem like it's helping anyone be more secure.

(The company I work for gets a lot of money from the military industrial complex, so I am not approaching this from a "liberal" point of view. Whether I like it or not, I have a vested financial interest in our government and other governments spending money on technologically advanced weapons.)
 
Like I said, I am NOT advocating our government do this.

The last thing I would advocate is government registered firearms.

The second to last thing I would advocate is more government spending.
 
Sorry, I guess I didn't communicate the ideal clearly enough.

In my opinion, the best defense is a well armed militia--like spelled out in the Constitution.

At our current rate of military spending, the taxpayers could provide 100% armament of US residents in less than 1 year.

Since our government has not done that, and in fact discourages that, it kind of shows that people at the TOP do not have the good intentions we think they do.

This is just an illustration though. I personally don't think our government should create another program, even if it is buying everyone a rifle.
 
I have thought about the nuclear missile/bomber/etc issue. Do you think that nukes are a deterrent to nukes?

Yes they can be if both sides do no want to be nuked. If one side does not care then no.
For example Castro told the Soviet leader Khrushchev that if he and his country needed to be sacrificed (nuked) to teach the US a lesson, he was okay with that. It was not bravado, because the US did not even know of the communication at the time.
The following day the Soviets removed nuclear weapons from Cuba.


Just as I imagine some others, perhaps many in the Middle East would be perfectly fine with being nuked to Allah's paradise if they got to take the right infidels with them.


Well, in fairness, how many more missiles does our current nuke inventory deter vs only having 20 or 30?

I don't think many people realize exactly what a nuclear war consists of. Nuclear weapons are more than simply offensive weapons, and there is many different types:

There is some that are for use as aerial defense. If an enemy missile or jet is inbound in the air a nuke can be used to knock it down, even if it misses by a good margin. A fighter squadron can use nukes against an enemy fighter squadron, turning large misses into kills, or to destroying incoming enemy missiles from miles away.

They can be used to cause implosion of submarines underwater, creating large pressure waves underwater, where explosives are very powerful. Consider a stick of dynamite that would not cause damage from 20 feet away in the air will kill fish in a large radius underwater. Explosive forces are magnified underwater, and the speed of sound which many shock waves slow to and travel at is much faster.

They can be detonated at high altitude to wipe out electronics of entire nations. A single nuke that at ground level would only take out a single city can destroy the unshielded electronics of almost the entire United States at high altitude. Destroying the vehicles, computers, internet, radios, TV, most forms of communication of entire large nations for only the cost of a single or relatively few nuclear weapons.

They can be used as area denial weapons, combined with certain elements or "salted" certain types of nuclear weapon designs are designed to sacrifice power to instead leave very deadly radioactive debris that makes it deadly to inhabit and area for years. Forming uncrossable barriers.
The common layman term is the "cobalt bomb" though cobalt is not the only potential salting material.

Other types of nuclear weapons are designed to create no blast, and almost no fallout to simply kill living things, leaving most buildings and other things completely unharmed. Allowing resources, factories, enemy vehicles etc to be cleared, and then the resources to be utilized by the attacker.
The common layman term is normally "nuetron bomb".
Such weapons usually have a low effective range for a nuclear weapon, so many are necessary for certain strategies.



Nukes can intentionally be detonated high over a defenders own nation to destroy incoming ICBMs or an entire fleet of enemy aircraft. Sacrificing the unshielded electronics of portions of the nation to keep from being destroyed.

The anti satellite potential of nuclear weapons, even those that miss by a good margin would be very powerful form a tactical perspective. In an age where many people and weapon guidance systems rely on GPS, the destruction of GPS and most communication satellites could cripple opponents for at least some time before reorganization and widespread implementation of other technologies.

Some can even be constantly shot and detonated in certain regions at regular intervals to keep aircraft, troops and many vehicles from crossing the area. Creating a nuclear fence so to speak
Such a fence would take a very large stockpile of weapons to keep operational, 100s or 1,000s of times more than to simply nuke 100s or 1,000s of times the area one time.
Don't have enough and the strategy is not even available to your nation. So you can actually have a valid logic to have more nukes than necessary to take out the entire world many times, simply to allow various strategies that require nuking the same areas many times. Such as the creation of nuclear fences.

Then of course there is the giant thermonuclear ones, intended to destroy the largest area with blast effects, which is usually what people think of when they hear the term "nuclear weapon". They make up only a small portion of the many types of nuclear weapons, though obviously the type with the biggest fear factor for civilians.

There is many other uses.

I hope thier eventual widespread use is beyond my lifetime, but the strategic possibilities in a tactical war are much more extensive and complex than simply submitting to mutual destruction like people envisioned throughout the cold war. Unfortunately they will likely be accompanied by lab created super disease which target both food crops and man in the form of biological weapons, when Superpowers resume fighting again in no limits conflicts. Diseases worse than anything in nature, genetically engineered, and such diseases are known to have been created by the US and Russia.
We have not seen such a no limits conflict since World War 1, considering they did not even employ the chemical weapons available during WW2 on any side.
Just coming into contact with other people in such a scenario would mean potential exposure to such diseases.
 
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how many more missiles does our current nuke inventory deter vs only having 20 or 30?


Better to have more than your enemy. The enemy won't be ab;e to take out all yours in a first strike. Maybe we don't need 4,000 but more than the few hundred Carter once proposed.

I agree with leadcounsel and we need to secure our borders but everyone being issued an SKS isn't going to do that either.
 
And yet, for all the SKS's in the world, one tank could literally roll over your national defense plan.

What was your "Plan B", praytell?
 
The intent of the founders was not to create a nation that could not be destroyed, weapons capable of such things did not exist at the time. It was to create a nation that could never be ruled against the will of the people by foreign or domestic tyrants.
They believed if every person had arms, every locality had militias, and every state had forces then no area could be tyrannized by the size forces any nation could muster, including thier own.
The whole people would be more powerful than any force used to impose tyranny. Insuring an inevitable widespread insurgency opposed any massive force trying to impose martial law.


Or as Noah Webster (of the Webster's dictionary) put it:
Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, in any pretense, raised in the United States.

When the militaries of the day used muskets and cannons, the people of the US also had muskets and cannons. Weapons on par with the forces of the formal fighting forces which could be raised against them.
Today a weapon capable of defeating even the lowliest fighting vehicle is illegal for most citizens to own. Nevermind a standard issue select-fire rifle as used by almost every military in the world as the lowliest combat weapon in thier arsenal.
So the intent of the 2nd is in reality destroyed. What is left is a shattered privilege that we can use to defend against criminals and for recreation.
Something which is still greater than possessed by much of the world.
 
When the militaries of the day used muskets and cannons, the people of the US also had muskets and cannons. Weapons on par with the forces of the formal fighting forces which could be raised against them.
Today a weapon capable of defeating even the lowliest fighting vehicle is illegal for most citizens to own. Nevermind a standard issue select-fire rifle as used by almost every military in the world as the lowliest combat weapon in thier arsenal.
So the intent of the 2nd is in reality destroyed. What is left is a shattered privilege that we can use to defend against criminals and for recreation.
Something which is still greater than possessed by much of the world.

In the days of the Framers, there were actually TWO militias. The Militia was the people, who were to provide their own personal arm, and who drilled periodically. The other was a "Select Militia". These were people who were under the direction of the governor. They often had uniforms, drilled much more often, and used the artillery, mortars, and heavy equipment of the military. They would be much closer to the concept of the National Guard of today.

So, the idea of the individual owning a missile, or anti-tank weapon, is a misconception. Then again, when was the last time that anyone saw a drill of the regular militia, as was expected in the days of the Founders? Can you imagine the wholesale whining and moaning that would cause?

As for the rest, the Constitution provides for a Navy as the only standing military. At the time, that also included the Marine component. So, does anyone want to advance the idea that we should dissolve the Army and Air Force? Replacing them with a militia? I didn't think so.

300 million rifles? Nowhere near that many would be required. The militia runs from 17 to 45 years of age. Males only. That's a much smaller number of both rifles, and ammunition. See, it would appear that even attempting to correct a policy of
inefficiency/corruption in government and also to reiterate how the best defense is a well armed militia.
causes inefficiency/corruption in the individual (sarcasm). ;)
 
Like I said, I am NOT advocating our government do this.

The last thing I would advocate is government registered firearms.

The second to last thing I would advocate is more government spending.
Maybe not the registration part, but these days with all this stimulus junk if they figured they just absolutely must spend money to stimulate the economy and bailout car companies, etc., they could have GM and Chrysler crank out AR15's and/or 5.56 ammo to give away or sell for cheap. Unlike their other schemes at least that's something we want.
 
I mean if you have read any modern military history you would realize how utterly crazy arming a country with only rifles would be.

Secondly, it is a very weak point upon which to draw a (political) conclusion.
 
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