Inexpensive optics
- Thread starter kount_zer0
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kount_zer0
Member
Thank you!
Thank you very much for all the wonderfull input!
I've got some homework to do now. I'll call around to see who has what in stock and go look through glass!
The Banner comes recommended from a buddy as well, so I might go look through his or even "test drive" it. The Nikon looks like a good deal too, but it's more than twice the price, so I'll see if I can find one in stock. don't know if anyone local carries Mueller or Swift, but I'll try those if I can find them.
I appreciate your thoughts! I agree that I don't need that kind of glass to shoot wel, but my desire for high magnification stands on my experience with the 30-06 I mentioned. I was unable to discern any difference in certain loads since several shot moa, but no smaller. At 9X I simply can't see if my POA is different shot to shot or if my rest is full of wiggle etc. i certainly need more practice, which is why I'm looking at another setup.
Nothing will get done for a while, since I'm off for a week long Elk hunt starting Wednesday!
If/when I get some glass, I'll try to post some results/reviews for those who mat be interested.
This is such a great resource!
Thanks again!
Jeff
Thank you very much for all the wonderfull input!
I've got some homework to do now. I'll call around to see who has what in stock and go look through glass!
The Banner comes recommended from a buddy as well, so I might go look through his or even "test drive" it. The Nikon looks like a good deal too, but it's more than twice the price, so I'll see if I can find one in stock. don't know if anyone local carries Mueller or Swift, but I'll try those if I can find them.
I appreciate your thoughts! I agree that I don't need that kind of glass to shoot wel, but my desire for high magnification stands on my experience with the 30-06 I mentioned. I was unable to discern any difference in certain loads since several shot moa, but no smaller. At 9X I simply can't see if my POA is different shot to shot or if my rest is full of wiggle etc. i certainly need more practice, which is why I'm looking at another setup.
Nothing will get done for a while, since I'm off for a week long Elk hunt starting Wednesday!
If/when I get some glass, I'll try to post some results/reviews for those who mat be interested.
This is such a great resource!
Thanks again!
Jeff
cwmoss
Member
Just received a 10x Super Sniper the other day. Super scope, very reasonable.
cwmoss
cwmoss
Stay away from Barska! . . . and its brethren.
I have fallen victim to the lure of Barka's big objectives and nice features, but . . . how do I put this nicely . . . the scope sucks. You get what you pay for.
Barska, NCStar and other manufacturers sell for nothing scopes, that from Leupold, Nikon, Weaver, etc., would sell for 5x the price. The latter are 5x the scope, though, and I have not met anyone who owned a Barska or NCStar (including myself) who have been happy with it.
I have a Barska Excavator, 4-16x, 50mm AO with illuminated target dot. Well, I like the illuminated reticle. After less than 100rds through a Savage MkII BTV (22LR target gun), the groups started spreading. Switched scopes and shot one ragged hole at 50 yards. My buddies laughed and told me, after the fact, that they had either had or seen Barskas with floating reticles after one shot atop a 270. I bought the really good one that took maybe 80 rds through a 22 before it gave up the ghost. Other buddies have had the same experience with NCStar.
I cannot recommend enough the Weaver Classic V 4-16x, 42mm AO ($264). Higher magnification may be better suited for 600+ yards, but I have used this scope to shoot center mass on silhouettes at 600. It really shines in the 500 yd and less range.
Whatever you do, stick with quality manufacturers. I personally like Leupold but their price in the magnification it sounds like you want would grow above your range. Makers like Steiner, Leica, and Swarovski (SP), though amazing optics, start way above what you're wanting to pay. I rank Weaver, Burris, and Nikon above Bushnell, but I have friends who seem to like their Bushnells and shoot well with them.
Don't get burned by <$100 makers (Tasco actually ain't too bad). They're not worth a sawbuck.
I have fallen victim to the lure of Barka's big objectives and nice features, but . . . how do I put this nicely . . . the scope sucks. You get what you pay for.
Barska, NCStar and other manufacturers sell for nothing scopes, that from Leupold, Nikon, Weaver, etc., would sell for 5x the price. The latter are 5x the scope, though, and I have not met anyone who owned a Barska or NCStar (including myself) who have been happy with it.
I have a Barska Excavator, 4-16x, 50mm AO with illuminated target dot. Well, I like the illuminated reticle. After less than 100rds through a Savage MkII BTV (22LR target gun), the groups started spreading. Switched scopes and shot one ragged hole at 50 yards. My buddies laughed and told me, after the fact, that they had either had or seen Barskas with floating reticles after one shot atop a 270. I bought the really good one that took maybe 80 rds through a 22 before it gave up the ghost. Other buddies have had the same experience with NCStar.
I cannot recommend enough the Weaver Classic V 4-16x, 42mm AO ($264). Higher magnification may be better suited for 600+ yards, but I have used this scope to shoot center mass on silhouettes at 600. It really shines in the 500 yd and less range.
Whatever you do, stick with quality manufacturers. I personally like Leupold but their price in the magnification it sounds like you want would grow above your range. Makers like Steiner, Leica, and Swarovski (SP), though amazing optics, start way above what you're wanting to pay. I rank Weaver, Burris, and Nikon above Bushnell, but I have friends who seem to like their Bushnells and shoot well with them.
Don't get burned by <$100 makers (Tasco actually ain't too bad). They're not worth a sawbuck.
litman252
Member
Ok you can have your opinion. Just last Saturday a guy was looking at 2 scopes at the local shop. One was a Simmons Aetec (SP) 2.8-10, the other a used Nikon Omega 3-9x. Now the lowest power is (rated) only .2 difference. Both scopes at there lowest setting, one you could not see the individual leaves on the ground across the street, they blended together. The other you could see each leaf as clear as day.
If you multiply this out to 600 yards on high power' if the circle is fuzzy, how well can you center it?? Will your eye try extra hard to clear up the sight picture??
Your money, your opinion. I would rather spend and extra $50-75 and get the next step up in glass. Take care of it and a little luck you will have it forever.
Tony
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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- Nov 14, 2007
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- 13,146
Absolutely, I would too, but that was not his question - his question was about a specific budget - not about "hey can you guys please avoid my question and up my stated limited budget?" Can we understand the definition of a 'Question' - there are sites you can check out to help you - try www.dictionary.com .
But now I see that he HAS indeed "upped" the budget to $300 - in that case I too would recommend that Nikon Buckmaster linked to on page 1 of this thread, or an Elite 3200 in the 4-14x range. And yes, by increasing the budget 50% ($200 to $300), you can get a LOT more scope quality, and it's well worth it, and stays within his question, as modified. The higher magnification most certainly helps to make shooting small groups easier at all distances. What "snipers" do is irrelevant - they are trying to "make hits on man-sized targets" which is very, VERY different from trying to "make teensy weensy groups."
litman252
Member
I love the high road.
To the OP, you have plenty of opinions look through lots of glass and please report back. I'd like to hear what you think does best.
Thanks,
Tony
To the OP, you have plenty of opinions look through lots of glass and please report back. I'd like to hear what you think does best.
Thanks,
Tony
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,146
Well, I'm sorry, but people are constantly doing that, and it becomes extremely obnoxious when it's done over and over and over again, as it is:
"I'm looking for X product on $Y budget - what's the best value I can get?"
"Spend more and get something better you ghetto punk. Better yet, forget it about - you'll shoot your eye out."
It's a very snobbish, crude, and unattractive attitude, IMO. It's one thing to say "You should spend more and here's why, BUT within your parameters, here's my recommendation". But what usually happens, and what YOU did in this thread, there's no recommendation made within the parameters given, just a non-responsive answer. I submit that not reading and answering the question asked is not very high road either. Just my opinion.
"I'm looking for X product on $Y budget - what's the best value I can get?"
"Spend more and get something better you ghetto punk. Better yet, forget it about - you'll shoot your eye out."
It's a very snobbish, crude, and unattractive attitude, IMO. It's one thing to say "You should spend more and here's why, BUT within your parameters, here's my recommendation". But what usually happens, and what YOU did in this thread, there's no recommendation made within the parameters given, just a non-responsive answer. I submit that not reading and answering the question asked is not very high road either. Just my opinion.
SpeedAKL
Member
I've been considering the Super Sniper 10x scope on the SWFA website myself. Never heard a bad thing about it....
TehK1w1
Member
The bushnell banner series is an excellent start within your stated budget. If you feel like getting a better one later, you could always look at a Leupold or Zeiss. I had a Bushnell banner 3-9x50 until just recently when I upgraded to a Zeiss 3-9X40. The bushnell got moved to a different rifle 
I have a simmons White Tail classic. It appears to be a pretty good scope for the money... i paid $99 for it on sale from midway. I was shooting 2-3" groups at 100 yrd with an older s&w 30.06 (a renamed howa). The group size I attribute to the rifle. After i get done rebuilding it I will give the scope another chance on top of it. Right now its atop of my savage 10fp .308 but i have not had a chance to put any rounds down range, hopefully saturday i will be back to give a update on its performance.
and right now there on sale at midway...
http://www.midwayusa.com/epromolist...m_source=nofsimmons&utm_medium=homepage101308
and right now there on sale at midway...
http://www.midwayusa.com/epromolist...m_source=nofsimmons&utm_medium=homepage101308
kount_zer0
Member
Holy cow I need a spell-check!
Anyway the budget is a little flexible, but a buck does not go far these days.
To be fair, I was kinda looking for the "don't buy this" threads as much as "buy this now" threads, to kind of separate the BS from the catalogs and gun rags.
I really appreciate the responses. All of them. This is a project rifle that I'll be tinkering on for a while (I hope). If it works out of the box, I'm going to have to start another project, which will involve some research and another post here :0
Anyway, thank you to those who took my stated budget seriously (I will too), thank you to those who couldn't find it within their experience to recommend something below their standards.
It's ALL valuable to me. I came here with this post asking for honest opinions. You gave them. It is now up to me to use the information as I wish. The constraints may very well change after my week long Elk hunt. You can be sure I'll be reviewing this post for some time before I "pull the trigger".
I hope I can help someone on their path as you've helped me.
Anyway the budget is a little flexible, but a buck does not go far these days.
To be fair, I was kinda looking for the "don't buy this" threads as much as "buy this now" threads, to kind of separate the BS from the catalogs and gun rags.
I really appreciate the responses. All of them. This is a project rifle that I'll be tinkering on for a while (I hope). If it works out of the box, I'm going to have to start another project, which will involve some research and another post here :0
Anyway, thank you to those who took my stated budget seriously (I will too), thank you to those who couldn't find it within their experience to recommend something below their standards.
It's ALL valuable to me. I came here with this post asking for honest opinions. You gave them. It is now up to me to use the information as I wish. The constraints may very well change after my week long Elk hunt. You can be sure I'll be reviewing this post for some time before I "pull the trigger".
I hope I can help someone on their path as you've helped me.
lefteyedom
Member
I have a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40 with Mil-dots on my 308, M24 clone. It works very very well. For $200 it is a great scope.
When I have $2000 in spare change I will upgrade to a Leupold or Nightforce but till then this is a great training scope.
When I have $2000 in spare change I will upgrade to a Leupold or Nightforce but till then this is a great training scope.
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MIL-DOT
member
I also really liked the Elite 3200 10x40 mil-dot......till I learned that it had no parallax adjustment. It's going to be set at 100 yards. If you're going to be shooting longer ranges, don't get a scope without an adjustable objective or side focus !!
And sure, I guess you can get by with the above recommnded 7x or 9x scopes, but at 600 yards, you're very likely going to wish you'd gotten something with a little more power, especially when the 600 yard efforts tempt you to make even further shots.( and remember, scopes bought for one rifle often someday end up on another).
Also, I've read numerous Bushnell banner owners getting years of good service out of them, but the one I had ( came stock on a Beeman R9 .20 pellet rifle) screwed up quickly. Fortunately, once sent in to Bushnell, they allowed me to upgrade VERY reasonably to a 5-15 3200 Elite tactical, which I'm very happy with.
As I and others have already said, stay away from the Barska junk. If you have no problem spending 200-300 bucks, why shortchange yourself and get something that 95% report as disappointing crapola ? Good luck, keep us posted....
P.S. Here's another option,especially if you're counting pennies....
http://straightshooters.com/bushnell/legend51540.html
This is the 5-15x Bushnell Legend, which I believe is their best scope before getting to the Elite series. It also has their great life-time guarantee,has parallax adjusment,mil-dot reticle, AND has fully multi-coated lenses, features I don't think ANYONE can touch for $209 !!
And sure, I guess you can get by with the above recommnded 7x or 9x scopes, but at 600 yards, you're very likely going to wish you'd gotten something with a little more power, especially when the 600 yard efforts tempt you to make even further shots.( and remember, scopes bought for one rifle often someday end up on another).
Also, I've read numerous Bushnell banner owners getting years of good service out of them, but the one I had ( came stock on a Beeman R9 .20 pellet rifle) screwed up quickly. Fortunately, once sent in to Bushnell, they allowed me to upgrade VERY reasonably to a 5-15 3200 Elite tactical, which I'm very happy with.
As I and others have already said, stay away from the Barska junk. If you have no problem spending 200-300 bucks, why shortchange yourself and get something that 95% report as disappointing crapola ? Good luck, keep us posted....
P.S. Here's another option,especially if you're counting pennies....
http://straightshooters.com/bushnell/legend51540.html
This is the 5-15x Bushnell Legend, which I believe is their best scope before getting to the Elite series. It also has their great life-time guarantee,has parallax adjusment,mil-dot reticle, AND has fully multi-coated lenses, features I don't think ANYONE can touch for $209 !!
guninthewater
Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2008
- Messages
- 43
For under $200, my pick would be something from the Bushnell Legend series. These scopes have superb glass but lack some of the premium bells and whistles of the Elite series. They even have a 5-15x40AO scope with a mildot reticle for under $200.
http://www.swfa.com/pc-10573-1507-mueller-85-25x44-tactical-riflescope.aspx
What's wrong with the Mueller?
Anything? I was thinking about this as my next scope purchase for a similar 600yrd shooting. Inexpensive and I hear good things about Muellers.
What's wrong with the Mueller?
Anything? I was thinking about this as my next scope purchase for a similar 600yrd shooting. Inexpensive and I hear good things about Muellers.
Regarding magnification, I've come to prefer either 2.5-10x, 3-12x or 4-16x, depending on the rifle and it's intended use. For use in the field, I find that anything over 16x is overkill, although more is OK off a bench on a sunny day. The lower magnification is great however for hunting. With a low magnification scope you can find your target very quickly and I think that any hunting scope should have a lower setting of 4x or less. I've got one hunting rifle set up with a 6-24x scope and I've regretted it since day one. 24x is just useless in the field and 6x doesn't allow you to get on target as quickly as 3x.
For general field use, a 3-12x or a 3-9x is about ideal. For a close range rifle that doesn't have to deliver tack driving accuracy, I'd go for even less magnification. I've got a couple of 2-7x scopes on AK's that I really like and I wouldn't hesitate to try a 1-4x either. For a tack driving hunting rifle, I like more magnification. I've got 4-16x scopes on both my .22's, (CZ452 varmint and TC R55 bench), and a 6-24x on my airgun. I use these to make headshots on rabbits at 50+ yards, so the magnification really helps. The 6-24x scope on the airgun is too much though and I wish I'd gone with either a 4-16x or a 3-12x instead. For the kind of shooting I do with that gun I wouldn't want to go below 12x.
For general field use, a 3-12x or a 3-9x is about ideal. For a close range rifle that doesn't have to deliver tack driving accuracy, I'd go for even less magnification. I've got a couple of 2-7x scopes on AK's that I really like and I wouldn't hesitate to try a 1-4x either. For a tack driving hunting rifle, I like more magnification. I've got 4-16x scopes on both my .22's, (CZ452 varmint and TC R55 bench), and a 6-24x on my airgun. I use these to make headshots on rabbits at 50+ yards, so the magnification really helps. The 6-24x scope on the airgun is too much though and I wish I'd gone with either a 4-16x or a 3-12x instead. For the kind of shooting I do with that gun I wouldn't want to go below 12x.
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