Info Request: Llama XA(?) mini 1911 in .32acp

[nero45acp]

While at a gun shop today I spotted a scaled down 1911 pistol that's a Llama .32acp. It was in excellent condition and seemed reasonably priced. I really don't have a need for this pistol, but still it felt good in my hand and seems like it would be an interesting plinker. After a bit of research on the internet when I got home, I believe that it is a Llama XA. It looks just like this pistol, but has little medallions on the checkered wood grips that say Llama:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Llama_extra_IV_Buena.jpg

Can anyone here tell me anything about this scaled down 1911 in .32acp? How are they in terms of quality, reliability, and durability? Also, where can I find mags and springs for this pistol? Numrich doesn't have much for this model, Wolff doesn't make springs for it, and Bob's gun parts doesn't look like he has anything for this model either. I'd hate to buy this pistol, and not be able to find any replacement springs or mags for it. Any suggestions on where to find mags or recoil springs for this pistol? Thanks.


nero

 

[sadp40]

i had one that was

spanish air force marked. it was a great gun and i have looked for years for another one. no that being said..parts aren't easy to find. mags are available but costly. it really is too big for a .32acp but thats the neat part about it. no recoil very accurate. buy it and enjoy it. i bought a 9mm llama minimax some years ago and it was very nice,nice enough that all that i gave it too a dear friend in a time of need and it saved his and his families life.

 

[Mad Magyar]

buy it and enjoy it.

I concur...I've had two Llamas, the price was reasonable as being cheap, shot them, and sold them for a profit...

 

[owlhoot]

I had a couple of those sweethearts in .380 and one in .22. Nice guns. But I don't think I would buy one in .32. What would you do with it? Ammo is too expensive for plinking and the caliber is inadequate for carry.

 

[Treo]

How are they in terms of quality, reliability, and durability?

Llama

Quality- Sucks

Reliability - Sucks

Durability- Sucks

Also, where can I find mags and springs for this pistol?

Magazines hard to come buy, may not fit right even from the factory and expensive.

Company has been out of business for years due to quality issues.

They do tend to make wuuuunderful paperweights. (See, even I can think of something positive to say about Llamas)

Before you ask I have owned 4 Llamas and they all sucked just some sucked more. I will say that the .32 sucked the least.

don't pay more than 200.00$

Let the flames begin

 

[Pop's2]

I had a "Deluxe Chrome Engraved" 380 ......shot reasonably well but was more of a wall hanger than a carry or range gun; sold it in the early 90's. Scroll down the link and you will see a picture of the one you described

http://www.littlegun.be/arme espagnole/llama/a llama gb.htm

 

[gb6491]

I have the .22LR version. It's a fun plinker and has been very reliable. Love the size of it; I wish someone made a modern, stainless version.

A Google search for "llama magazines" will turn some up.
Numrich Gun Parts Corp. has some parts. You'll find some on gunbroker.com now and then.




Regards,
Greg

 

[Mad Magyar]

gb, real sweet....What are the specific models? I have my Spanish reference book and I enjoy looking up the spec's and write-ups...That's why I'm so knowledgeable...

 

[mainmech48]

Personally, I'd at least field strip it and give it a very thorough inspection before I'd even consider buying it, no matter how low the price.

In my limited and unhappy experience with the Llama brand, consistent QC seems to have been their biggest failing.

I've owned two, a "Comache" revolver and one of the little quasi-1911's like the one you're considering in .22 RF. FWIW, I ordered the little semiauto on the basis of impressions gained in shooting one owned by a hunting buddy. His worked fine; the one I received was garbage.

The major action parts looked as if they'd been hastily assembled by a monkey with a wood rasp. On the first magazine through it, it 'doubled' twice. The first round in the second mag blew a hole in the ground near the toe of my left boot when the slide was released to chamber it.

FWIW, further inspection when I got home showed marked deformation to the sear and hammer engagement surfaces that indicated metal so "soft" that it could not withstand the stresses of normal operation.

I sent it back to the then-importer (Garcia, IIRC) for repair under warranty. When I finally got it back almost five months later, it lasted about five more mags before it started doubling again, and again the culprit appeared to be 'soft' parts and sloppy fitting.

Rather than spend any more time and money arguing with and waiting for Garcia to repair it again (they flatly refused to replace it) I stuck it in a drawer and wrote the brand off my list for good. I later sold it (at a substantial loss) to a fellow who knew what had happened and reckoned that he could buy his own parts and fix it.

I've seen several Llamas that were correctly fitted, but lingering doubts about the quality and integrity of the metal in their parts have kept me from ever buying another. YMMV, but I still remember that hole in the ground and how close it was to my foot.

 

[JR47]

Company has been out of business for years due to quality issues.

Wrong. ALL Spanish handgun manufacturers are gone. The climate for them in Europe has detertiorated markedly. The last Llama was the Spanish NATO service pistol.

The reason why different Llama magazines don't interchange has to do with the designs. Even those that look exactly the same went through minor design changes in their century of existence. Many companies actually ask for the model stamped in the slide, and the serial number. You just have to be as smart as the gun to buy parts for it.

I own a .32 ACP IIIX, and it's been quite reliable with FMJ ammunition. Small frame, it's like a 60% 1911.

I also own a XI-B, in 9mm, that had a faulty magazine from the factory, but has otherwise worked quite well, with all but the stubbiest JHPs.

 

[Treo]

I know there are some Llama fans around here, and I know you really like your guns.
That said, Llama didn't go out of business because of their stellar reputation for producing quality firearms.
And they didn't get the reputation they have overnight they worked long and hard at it.

Here is a small sampling of what other THR members have to say about their Llamas:

Michael T

Llama closed its doors a couple years ago; those pistols were from the 1980's if I remember right. I would pass they also had reliability problems and I bet parts would be really had to find.

Texastbird

Well, I have to say that I did own one in 9mm back when they were fairly new on the market. It was beautifully finished in one of the finest bluing jobs I'd seen. But beauty was only skin deep. After a couple of boxes of ammo it started to have al kinds of trouble feeding bullets and things started falling off of it like little pins and springs.

Tech

had 2 one would just not go through a whole mag without some kind of problem. The other had soft steel on the slide. Shooting would cause the metal on the slide to peen up around the barrel bushing. After 200 rounds there was a large bump on the inside of the slide up front right behind the notch for the bushing. I got rid of both. I also had a little Llama .380 gov model. First time out the plunger tube assembly went flying off into the weeds never to be seen again. I stay far away from the Llama brand now. Who knows maybe I was unlucky.

Shootcraps

The Llamas are usually pretty poor quality

HSMITH

Every once in a while I see a Llama that works OK, but most are junk. Stay away from them.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Here is a small sampling of what other THR members have to say about their Llamas:

You certainly are going out of your way, not the 1st time, about Llama & their firearms. As far as sampling goes, I've always made a point of posting pics of my firearms, Llama included, to distinguish those that "talk the talk", but are spouting on something they know nothing about it, just forum gossip. To be fair, post some positive comments that were made. The cliche of "hit & miss" can go with any brand/model; not just Llama. The idea of "soft steel", QC, and other myths go as far back as the stories that surrounded the Sistema's of Argentina that were unfounded. Llama's demise was more a political and economic demise in Europe...

 

[Walkalong]

I had a .32. I wish I still had it.

 

[Treo]

It's Nothing Personal Mad Maygar

You certainly are going out of your way, not the 1st time, about Llama & their firearms.

I've never kept my disdain for Llamas secret, I've never had one yet that proved to be a quality gun. I've had some that were fairly accurate, but parts are hard to come by and magazine prices are ridiculous.

not the 1st time,

And not the last

I've always made a point of posting pics of my firearms, Llama included, to distinguish those that "talk the talk", but are spouting on something they know nothing about it, just forum gossip.

Please clarify, are you insinuating that I'm lying about ever having owned a Llama ( Happens my wifes .380 Micro Max is in the gunsafe 5 feet from me right now will posting a picture of it make me credible in your eyes?)

The idea of "soft steel",

Is that the same "myth" that made the safety on mine disintegrate and the weapon fall apart in my hand during firing? What about Tech's quote just another "myth"?

QC, and other myths

Same myth that caused pieces of my Llama 9mm to fall out of the magazine well and jam ( and I do mean JAM) the magazine(the one that cost 67.50 from the factory) half way out ?

that were unfounded

Except that I actually watched it happen

Luke dude I have nothing personally against you ( unless you really were implying that Im a liar) But the fact is I've never seen a Llama that didn't suck. I gave all of mine away and the only reason there's one in he safe now is because I believe in letting the wife pick her own weapon. Llamas aren't safe. I don't deny that you might have got a mediocre one but I'm positive that it was very much the exception.

Come on man, most of the people I see that say Llamas suck have a Llama horror story to back it up are we all just making it up for internet gossip?

 

[Rex B]

Tell us how you really feel

But other that that is was a good gun, eh?

I have 8 Llamas currently.
Mine are all 1952 and older .380s, except for two .45ACPs from this century.
All are good guns. The early ones have a fit and finish that speaks of quality, and they work well. They are among my favorites.
The later ones {with "Max" in the name) were built to a price, but also work well. The difference is in the edges and the feel. That can be fixed.
I do have one .380 built in 1987, which I bought as a project gun. Though it has evidently been rode hard and put away dirty, the bore looks good and the fire control parts look good. It has a plastic plunger tube and grips. I don't have an opinion on how well those work, mine won't be a fair example. But it's blowback and the plunger tube and grips were plastic. Steel and wood going back, and that ugly slide rib is gone.

That .32 pictured would probably have been built either side of 1960.
I don't have much experience with that ear in Llamas, but my general rule is if it has original checkered walnut grips, it's probably good quality. I think when they started trying to build to the 1968 GCA and to their perception of what we wanted, the trouble started. No doubt the Spanish knew how to build good guns from good steel. I suspect there was a period from about 1968 - 1990 or so that they chose to build to a price.

Having said that, I'd probably pay up to $225 for one like that in good shape.

 

[Treo]

Enjoy your Spanish Lorcins

 

[JR47]

While out there picking and choosing the quotes, why didn't one include those of the Moderator who sold Llama as a dealer for years? Maybe because his experience was positive?

Spanish Lorcins would be Ruby pistols. American Lorcins would be Kimbers.

If you'd like, I can cherry-pick some opposing comments as my "proof", as was done here.

 

[Treo]

Look if you guys like your Llamas, fine have at it. The biggest problem I have with these threads is that when one starts as soon as someone comes along and says, “Hey, my experience with Llamas was totally negative.” The Llamas fanboys come out of the woodwork to tell those of us that have had the negative experience that we must be lying, or just passing on Internet gossip and the “myth” (the same myth that blew my gun apart) of soft steel.

Bottom line, I have owned four Llama products

Fact. I have never had one that didn’t have reliability issues two of them had major reliability issues

Fact. The magazines are hard to come by except from the importer and they are ridiculously priced

Fact. The company went out of business, I read somewhere that it was because of quality issues nobody seems to be able to come up with a reliable source that says otherwise.

I don’t think my experience with these guns was out of the norm, and, given a choice, I wouldn’t own one today.

Tell me again why I should recommend these pistols

Oh and wasn’t the Ruby made by llama?

 

[JR47]

I don't see anyone telling you that your experience wasn't what you say. I also don't see how you can arrive at your conclusions about what others have said, unless you believe that they are lying.

Bottom line, I have owned four Llama products

Several posters here have owned at least that many, and sold even more.

Fact. I have never had one that didn’t have reliability issues two of them had major reliability issues

So? The majority of posters here haven't had the same results.

Fact. The magazines are hard to come by except from the importer and they are ridiculously priced

Magazines for any out-of-production gun will become difficult to find after a decade out of production. Oddly enough, with EBay until recently, and GunBroker, AuctionArms, GunsAmerica, and so on, one would think that we'd be awash in unloved magazines. After all, the guns disassemble themselves, to quote you.

Fact. The company went out of business, I read somewhere that it was because of quality issues nobody seems to be able to come up with a reliable source that says otherwise.

Strawman. Have you been able to prove your claim from "somewhere"? You disregard the quote on Wikipedia, but it's got more source than what has been quoted about quality issues. Right?

I don’t think my experience with these guns was out of the norm, and, given a choice, I wouldn’t own one today.

Actually, while one doesn't think that their experience is "out of the norm", the preponderance of posters don't agree. Thus, explain the concept of "the norm". It routinely means the an average experience. That hasn't been proven here. I have absolutely nothing but respect for your choice, but it's based on your experiences, not the norm, or others.

Tell me again why I should recommend these pistols

Nobody said that recommendations were required. However, those with differing experiences have just as much right to their recommendations, and to question unproven statements.

Oh and wasn’t the Ruby made by llama?

Why NO, it wasn't. A little Google goes a long ways.

 

[Rex B]

Let me add that while I like my Llama pistols, I don't rely on them, simply because I have other modern pistols better suited to target or defensive duties. I haven't shot any of my Llamas more than about 20 rounds or so. They worked fine, but that's not the same as trusting one's life to one.
And yes, I've seen my share of junk Llamas. I wondered if they were bought with low expectations and became the household 'beater' pistol until it got traded off.

 

[wnycollector]

My father-in-law has a nice collection (~a dozen) Star, Astra and Llama pistols in .32, .380, 9mm and .45. I have shot his XA several times and enjoyed it. 100% reliable and accurate for a little gun.