Installing aftermarket open sights for backup?

[sam700]

I’ve always wondered why most modern rifles are not offered with open sights. My main hunting rifle is a Kimber Montana (.300 win mag) With a VXIII. Although the scope has yet to let me down it is a possibility that I still think about. I used to keep a second rifle in the trunk of the car which I could retrieve if I had an issue with my scope. I know a scope problem is not likely, but I’d hate to miss out on a week of hunting because I dropped the rifle and banged the scope on a rock!

The last couple of years, I have become a bit more adventurous and have been hunting some wilderness areas while camped a couple of days walk from the car. A scope issue here, would mean a lot of wasted time to retrieve the backup gun. Carrying another gun is not an option, as I usually backpack. That’s where the idea of adding a backup set of open sights is starting to look appealing. If I had an issue, I could simply detach the scope and continue the hunt.

Basically, I’m wondering if anyone has any experience with aftermarket open sites. I am looking for something very small and low profile that will not interfere in any way. I’m not looking for something really big and tacky looking, but merely a small backup for peace of mind.

Also, I’m a bit curious if anyone has managed to break a scope like the VXIII or one similar in quality?

Also and probably most importantly, I’m wondering if there are any possible negative consequences of installing open sights. The gun has a very lightweight barrel profile. Are there any negative accuracy concerns with havening something like this installed by a gunsmith? I’m assuming they have to drill into the barrel to install them which is why I do have a bit of concern. With the right handloads, the gun can be a real tackdriver and I’d hate to risk that if there is any risk with this procedure.

 

[sam700]

The other issue is that the rear sight would probably have to be forward of the scope bell. For those who aren't familiar with the rifle, here's a link to a picture.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/rifles/intro/fullscreen_montana.jpg

 

[RevolvingCylinder]

The rear sight is going to be forward of the scope anyway as that's how these type of sights are designed(open for scoped rifles). It shouldn't hurt accuracy. There are a lot of options out there that would work great. Off the top of my head Lyman and Williams are two companies that produce some fine open sights.

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/gunsightsdefault.htm#

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanproducts/sights.htm

Having sights is not a bad idea for a hunting rifle and an option I don't do without.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

Some years ago it was not uncommon at all for a name brand weaver or redfield to suddenly loose it's zero. Back then most rifles had iron sights. We shot the irons first to confirm zero and then mounted our weavers or redfields, zeroed them in and went hunting. Even the bargain basement scopes of today are better than those old weavers and redfields.

 

[dmazur]

I'm having some Ruger #1's rebarreled and I'm happy enough with Leupold reliability that I'm asking the gunsmith to delete the iron sights.

However, if you had Warne Maxima scope mounts on your Kimber, you could use a really nice NECG peep sight on the rear mount and a matching NECG ramped front sight. The NECG design removes/attaches with no loss of zero and makes a good backup (or alternative) to a scope. These peep sights use standard Williams apertures. Unfortunately, if you have Leupold/Burris style dovetail mounts, there is no NECG peep available for those...

 

[Z_Infidel]

I second the NECG recommendation, they have good stuff on their site:

www.newenglandcustomgun.com

In addition to the peep sight they also offer open sights and various front sight blades/beads. You can even order a patridge/sourdough style front sight blade.

 

[sam700]

I checked out the NECG site and was pretty impressed. An express sight coupled with quick detach rings would allow me to cover just about any hunting situation imaginable with only one rifle!!

If I understand it correctly, this sight will mount directly to the barrel as well eliminating the concern about the Leupold mounts. http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/

On the other hand, how much accuracy do I loose at the expense of speed by choosing the express sights over a more conventional sight like this one?
http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/

I like the speed of the express sight, but I don't foresee being charged by a Cape Buffalo anytime soon; so I'm not willing to make huge accuracy sacrifices to gain speed. Basically I am wondering which one would serve me better. If the express sight is significantly faster, and still capable of hitting a whitetail's vitals at 75 yards and an elk at 150, that would be plenty for me.

 

[Z_Infidel]

Well, the links you posted are incomplete but I get the point. Express sights are really meant for big/dangerous game at close range where quick sight alignment is crucial but precise accuracy is not. Personally, I don't like bead front sights for shooting at any distance beyond about 50-75 yards. I think a patridge or sourdough front sight allows for more precise judgement of elevation and doesn't have the problem with light reflection that a bead can have. I think a front post in combination with a square notch rear or aperture are the best options for iron sights on a rifle. And when it comes to aperture sights, ghost rings are faster and peeps are a little more precise.

I am currently considering either NECG's new ghost ring sight for CZ rifles or a square notch rear along with a sourdough also made for CZ rifles for my 550FS.

 

[sam700]

Thanks, the only reason I was considering an express sight is that I'm trying to draw a bear tag and thought it might be nice in the event I have to track a wounded animal. The primary purpose of the sight is a backup to the scope when I can only take one rifle so it sounds like the standard sight is the way to go!

 

[Boxhead]

Here are the sights on my "remodeled" lighweight Ruger 35 Whelen that I bought with no sights (previous owner had removed them). I bought the front and rear factory Ruger sight bases from Numrich. The rear blade was found in a gunsmiths junk box. The front is a NECG bead that I had stashed away. An NECG sourdough is on order as I do not like the bead. As above I find the sourdough with a square notch rear to be as fast and much more precise.

 

[Z_Infidel]

Boxhead, those are great pics. Please let us know how the sourdough front sight works out.

 

[foghornl]

I would like iron sights on rifles, too. Doesn't happen often, but a scope can go wocka...wocka at the worst possible moment.

The only 'con' to iron sights, unless using a 'side-saddle' kind of mount, is that you need the high-rise 'see-through' rings...which sticks the scope way up over the barrel, and recudes the handiness factor a bit

 

[Z_Infidel]

I don't like the "see through" rings, and would much rather use some quick-detachable rings since the irons would be for backup on a scoped rifle. Way too many negatives with the "see-through" setup.

 

[sam700]

It still amazes me that so many people have gone out of their way to remove the open sights from their rifle. The only con I see of having them is a slight, but really negligible weight penalty.

I guess the next step for me would be to pick a quick detach rings. Right now, it's a choice between the Leupold QR mounts http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-...s-and-accessories/mounting-systems/qr-mounts/

Or the LX mounting system
http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-...essories/mounting-systems/lx-mounting-system/

The LX is in the ballpark of four times the cost, but it also looks like it adds a bit more weight and I'm trying to keep this gun as light as possible.

does anyone have any experience with either of these mounts. Basically, I'm looking for two things from these mounts.

1. It must hold a zero as well as the standard rings. If either one is prone to drifting off zero, then it's not worth the ease of removing.

2. It has to keep a zero when removed.

I'm not really concerned that the LX is super speedy to remove, but if it holds a better zero then I'm all for it.

 

[Z_Infidel]

The Leupold QR system is a good design and seems to hold zero very well. The negative for me was that when I mounted them on a Marlin 336 the base was a little too thick to allow use of the iron sights with the scope removed. This may or may not be an issue with other rifles.

Warne also makes some good mounts and rings, including quick-detach setups.

 

[ArmedBear]

The Warne QD system is excellent. I have it on a .30-06 Vanguard Sporter.

I sometimes take the scope off for cleaning, and it goes right back to zero.

If I go somewhere and figure I really need backup, I'll buy and sight in another scope and rings, not iron sights. It takes a few seconds to swap 'em.

I like shooting with iron sights, but they really don't replace a scope. If I break a scope on a big-deal hunting trip, I'll want another scope.

 

[Bwana John]

I wish my backpacking deer hunting rifle had open sights. (Remington Mnt Rifle - 7mm Mauser, Luepold M8 - 4X scope)

I did fall squarely on it once while carrying out a deer in my pack, I hit hard and was worryed about the rifle, and I just KNEW the scope was broken:banghead:, but 10 years later the combo shoots just fine, abet with some scratchs to the receiver, rings, and floorplate, some dents in the wood, and a big scratch on the outside of the scope.

 

[ArmedBear]

Open sights get tweaked when you drop them, too. Can't trust that the gun is still sighted in if it's a big drop.

That's another reason I'd rather carry a spare scope on QD rings.

 

[sam700]

A while back, I asked a gunsmith about installing some open sights and he told me that due to my gun's very thin profile barrel, there would almost certainly be an impact on accuracy. He also said that the sight would have to be soldered onto the barrel, but the vibration of the barrel would likely cause the sight to come loose with time.

Does anyone else have any experience mounting open sights on very light profile barrels, and if so have you had any problems with a change in shooting characteristics or the sight coming loose due to vibration. Was the sight drilled or soldered on?