MillennialGunslinger
Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2017
- Messages
- 97
Hey guys! Sorry for the long length though, but I thought it appropriate to post context.
I'm sure plenty of you guys are also avid DIYers, who have invariably ended up on Youtube or some forum posts looking for a how-to, or writing a how-to yourself. Repairing, modding and upgrading firearms is probably what we spend most of our time doing with firearms, sometimes as much as we shoot them. And of course, it doesn't end there. I bet we're a very DIYing demographic in general (it comes with the self-reliance trait). On the internet, the number one place to get DIYs these days is Youtube, but I'd venture to say that the second place for random people to post high quality DIYs (improvised forum threads aside) is Instructables.com. For anything other than firearms, I'll admit it's a great place to both post quality DIYs as well as see what others have posted. Anyone can post a DIY there easily and for free, so it's a no brainer for anyone wanting to share their project without having to make a video on it. I'm sure many of you guys have probably stumbled upon it in the past without even knowing it. It has millions of visitors and is owned by AutoDesk (the AutoCad design software), so it isn't a tiny, obscure company. Instructables gets about 16 million unique visitors every single month, which is astronomic. If we get mad about local brick&Mortar's being anti-gun, you can imagine why this would really bother me.
The Issue:
The motive of this post is about something I wrote a few months ago. After wanting to have a short handbook to teach friends to shoot, and not finding one I liked online, I ended up writing my own. Since I already had it written, I thought I might as well post it there for anyone to take advantage of. I posted it here: How to teach a friend to shoot. I never expected it to get Featured since I already knew gun related content just about never was, but I was still surprised about how little views it had (around 80, most probably me while editing the post or downloading the file), as well as how hard it was to find.
I decided to inspect the page and confirmed my suspicions. I found the HTML code marked noindex, nofollow, which is basically a webpage's way of telling the internet to hide that page to the world unless manually typed in. Arguably, a page marked by that could be considered the "Dark web" since it won't appear in search results (when they say that most of the web is the dark web, that's what they mean). After checking some other posts, I pretty much confirmed my suspicions. Instructables was hiding gun related content. And they later confirmed it via post (in an answer included below).
How Instructables penalizes firearm-related content:
Some other high quality Instructables that I'm aware of also being set to be completely hidden are these:
I'm sure they are more...but for obvious reasons they are hard to find. My anecdotal and limited experience would lead me to speculate it was somewhere around 2014-2015 when they really shunned away gun-related content. Content prior to that doesn't seem as affected.
What did Instructables say?
I posted a topic on their internal forum calling out the issue...and unsurprisingly it was shadow-banned. Meaning that that topic wasn't visible to anyone but moderators. What a surprise. It is obvious that Instructables would like to simply keep the topic quiet to avoid any controversy. Despite hiding the topic, a representative responded. Their answer was as follows:
Why is Instructables so Anti-Gun? My Instructable's actively set to be hidden on search engines.
Why does this matter?
My point isn't to totally rant on their site. In general, it's a great idea to be able to share user-generated content. I'm sure most people here won't care at all, but like local anti-gun business, if no one complains and no one shines the public spotlight, there isn't any incentive to change. Like YouTube, I'd like content to be judged on individual merits and not simply on subject matter (of which firearms topics are generally considered too controversial to give an equal opportunity).
What should we do?
Well, there isn't much to do. And I doubt this post will get much traction or anyone will care, but I did want to document it so that anyone else wondering about this topic could have their suspicions confirmed if they did a Google Search. Instructables.com seems to be proactively anti-gun regarding content posted on their website. If you are a viewer on their site, I'd recommend always viewing it with an adblocker. I'd say it would be pointless to not use their site since their users are awesome and have nothing to do with this. If you can take advantage of their content, do so. Just don't let them benefit from this until this issue is fixed.
If you have non gun-related content to post...well honestly I don't know of any comparable sites that get as much traffic(I'd love to hear about them though), so that's your call. If you have anything even remotely gun-related, don't post it. It's not worth your time and having something online like that to only get less than a hundred views is more insulting than beneficial, however you look at it. I'd certainly recommend taking down any gun-related content (I will be doing so).
What would I have considered to be a reasonable compromise?
Look, I get that gun related content is a sensitive and controversial subject. I may or may not agree, but in practice it is. What I think would be the most reasonable outcome would simply having an opt-in "Adult Filter" for controversial topics. I don't want to see anything sexual, illegal or immoral on that site. I agree with it being a Family-friendly. But a filter like that for anything alcohol (How to make moonshine), tobacco (How to Light a Pipe with a Hammer) or firearm related topic would be a perfectly reasonable outcome for everyone involved, and would protect kids more than even the current system does. Being welcoming of gun related content would bring plenty of the type of traffic advertisers love, and we'd love being able to post and view quality content. But then again, since our tastes are "controversial", I don't see this as happening any time soon.
Of course, if I am wrong about anything here, or Instructables would like to correct me, I'd be more than happy to listen and correct myself if wrong. It's just that the evidence seems overwhelming and explicit at this point.
Anyway, I just needed to vent. If any other Instructables user is on here (either as a poster or just an occasional reader), I'd love some opinions.
I'm sure plenty of you guys are also avid DIYers, who have invariably ended up on Youtube or some forum posts looking for a how-to, or writing a how-to yourself. Repairing, modding and upgrading firearms is probably what we spend most of our time doing with firearms, sometimes as much as we shoot them. And of course, it doesn't end there. I bet we're a very DIYing demographic in general (it comes with the self-reliance trait). On the internet, the number one place to get DIYs these days is Youtube, but I'd venture to say that the second place for random people to post high quality DIYs (improvised forum threads aside) is Instructables.com. For anything other than firearms, I'll admit it's a great place to both post quality DIYs as well as see what others have posted. Anyone can post a DIY there easily and for free, so it's a no brainer for anyone wanting to share their project without having to make a video on it. I'm sure many of you guys have probably stumbled upon it in the past without even knowing it. It has millions of visitors and is owned by AutoDesk (the AutoCad design software), so it isn't a tiny, obscure company. Instructables gets about 16 million unique visitors every single month, which is astronomic. If we get mad about local brick&Mortar's being anti-gun, you can imagine why this would really bother me.
The Issue:
The motive of this post is about something I wrote a few months ago. After wanting to have a short handbook to teach friends to shoot, and not finding one I liked online, I ended up writing my own. Since I already had it written, I thought I might as well post it there for anyone to take advantage of. I posted it here: How to teach a friend to shoot. I never expected it to get Featured since I already knew gun related content just about never was, but I was still surprised about how little views it had (around 80, most probably me while editing the post or downloading the file), as well as how hard it was to find.
I decided to inspect the page and confirmed my suspicions. I found the HTML code marked noindex, nofollow, which is basically a webpage's way of telling the internet to hide that page to the world unless manually typed in. Arguably, a page marked by that could be considered the "Dark web" since it won't appear in search results (when they say that most of the web is the dark web, that's what they mean). After checking some other posts, I pretty much confirmed my suspicions. Instructables was hiding gun related content. And they later confirmed it via post (in an answer included below).
How Instructables penalizes firearm-related content:
- Firearm-related Posts do not get Featured: Featured posts get shown as the new submissions of the day. Just about any post with half decent images and half decent grammar gets featured. Getting featured doesn't mean you did a good job, it means you didn't do a bad job. If a post doesn't get featured, it effectively goes straight to the archive and gets no initial visibility. Since it never got any initial traction, it's unlikely to ever get traction and effectively was wasted time unless being actively searched for. The fact that firearm-related posts seem to not get featured as a rule, makes pretty clear that there is active discrimination and prejudice against that type of content.
- Firearm-related posts will be proactively hidden from search results and from Google: This is probably the most egregious part. After being curious about how unnaturally low views firearm-related submissions were receiving (not only mine, those of other users too). I decided to look at the HTML code of the page (just right click and select "Inspect" on Chrome). And I don't know if I was surprised or unsurprised by what I found. The HTML code included code specifically instructing search engines (aka Google) to not list it in search results or pay any attention to any links listed on the page. This isn't something that happens by mistake, it's the company making the active decision of hiding the page from the internet. Basically, that page is only reachable if you are handed the link directly. And that is unlikely to happen because, together with the previous point, it would have never been seen in the first place to do so.
- Firearm-related posts will frequently be hidden in the internal search as well: In other words, there is no way to find many/most recent gun-related posts for someone who has never seen it before. For all intents and purposes, it's shadow-banned content to visitors.
Some other high quality Instructables that I'm aware of also being set to be completely hidden are these:
I'm sure they are more...but for obvious reasons they are hard to find. My anecdotal and limited experience would lead me to speculate it was somewhere around 2014-2015 when they really shunned away gun-related content. Content prior to that doesn't seem as affected.
What did Instructables say?
I posted a topic on their internal forum calling out the issue...and unsurprisingly it was shadow-banned. Meaning that that topic wasn't visible to anyone but moderators. What a surprise. It is obvious that Instructables would like to simply keep the topic quiet to avoid any controversy. Despite hiding the topic, a representative responded. Their answer was as follows:
Why is Instructables so Anti-Gun? My Instructable's actively set to be hidden on search engines.
In other words, gun safety is considered controversial these days. When I say that being a gun-hobbyist makes me feel like a second-class citizen, this is exactly what I mean. Considering that one of their most popular DIYs ever is "How to Make Moonshine", I call bullsh*t on it being about illegal, dangerous or drug related topics. Give me a break.Hi there,
There's no official response, other than what is already spelled out in the Terms of Service, namely section 4: https://www.autodesk.com/company/legal-notices-tra...
But sure, gun-related content, as well as anything "adult", things related to drugs, high explosives, and things that are illegal or simply especially dangerous are all subjects that are all generally troublesome.
The site is focused on education and general appeal, and is heavily used in schools by a younger, school-age audience . . so good or bad, optics matter and the site certainly makes an effort to avoid promoting or highlighting anything that could even remotely be deemed controversial.
I suspect the Terms of Service was written to be rather fluid, with the phrase "otherwise objectionable" able to be applied as needed over time and to cover all circumstances, and generally keep the site out of any controversy.
Why does this matter?
My point isn't to totally rant on their site. In general, it's a great idea to be able to share user-generated content. I'm sure most people here won't care at all, but like local anti-gun business, if no one complains and no one shines the public spotlight, there isn't any incentive to change. Like YouTube, I'd like content to be judged on individual merits and not simply on subject matter (of which firearms topics are generally considered too controversial to give an equal opportunity).
What should we do?
Well, there isn't much to do. And I doubt this post will get much traction or anyone will care, but I did want to document it so that anyone else wondering about this topic could have their suspicions confirmed if they did a Google Search. Instructables.com seems to be proactively anti-gun regarding content posted on their website. If you are a viewer on their site, I'd recommend always viewing it with an adblocker. I'd say it would be pointless to not use their site since their users are awesome and have nothing to do with this. If you can take advantage of their content, do so. Just don't let them benefit from this until this issue is fixed.
If you have non gun-related content to post...well honestly I don't know of any comparable sites that get as much traffic(I'd love to hear about them though), so that's your call. If you have anything even remotely gun-related, don't post it. It's not worth your time and having something online like that to only get less than a hundred views is more insulting than beneficial, however you look at it. I'd certainly recommend taking down any gun-related content (I will be doing so).
What would I have considered to be a reasonable compromise?
Look, I get that gun related content is a sensitive and controversial subject. I may or may not agree, but in practice it is. What I think would be the most reasonable outcome would simply having an opt-in "Adult Filter" for controversial topics. I don't want to see anything sexual, illegal or immoral on that site. I agree with it being a Family-friendly. But a filter like that for anything alcohol (How to make moonshine), tobacco (How to Light a Pipe with a Hammer) or firearm related topic would be a perfectly reasonable outcome for everyone involved, and would protect kids more than even the current system does. Being welcoming of gun related content would bring plenty of the type of traffic advertisers love, and we'd love being able to post and view quality content. But then again, since our tastes are "controversial", I don't see this as happening any time soon.
Of course, if I am wrong about anything here, or Instructables would like to correct me, I'd be more than happy to listen and correct myself if wrong. It's just that the evidence seems overwhelming and explicit at this point.
Anyway, I just needed to vent. If any other Instructables user is on here (either as a poster or just an occasional reader), I'd love some opinions.
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