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Interesting Article on the Birth of Ny Gun Laws

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Redlg155, Oct 4, 2012.

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  1. 22250Rem

    22250Rem Member

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    Anytime the topic of NY gun law is brought up it is imperative, in the name of accuracy, to specify if the topic concerns the NYC/ Long Island area or the rest of the state. I'm in western NYS, Monroe County, Rochester area; have had a pistol permit since 1974 with 7 pistols on the permit currently. I might as well be in a different state when it comes to the stuff usually heard under the heading of "NY Gun Laws". My permit is not valid in NYC, (not that I ever go there) and neither is anyone else's no matter where you're from. The NYC area might as well be a foreign country when it comes to gun laws. As a previous poster mentioned that all you ever hear of is NYC gun laws is the God's honest truth. You never hear about the rest of the state and it's like two different states in one. My sister got her permit a couple years ago and I sold her my S&W J-Frame snubby .38 (a 642) at a gun show. County Clerk had an office set up at the show and we did the transfer off my permit, onto hers, right there...Try THAT down in the NYC area.
     
  2. k_dawg

    k_dawg Member

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    By 'pistol permit', do you mean to purchase, or to carry loaded on/about your person?

    If one must require permission from the gov't, it is not a Right.
     
  3. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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  4. leftyz

    leftyz Member

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    Actually, to be more correct, they are at times one and the same. It depends on if the pistol permit has unrestricted conceal carry, hunting / range conceal carry, or dwelling only carry listed on it.

    Most likely if he's had his that long, its unrestricted conceal carry.
     
  5. 22250Rem

    22250Rem Member

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    Sorry for the confusion.... Around here "pistol permit" means "carry permit". Or as it says on the front; "LICENSE TO CARRY PISTOL IS HEREBY GRANTED". Along with my picture,name address etc.. On the back all 7 of the handguns are listed by make,caliber & serial number, along with three conditions which are: 1. It is revocable at any time 2. It expires when revoked 3. Not valid to carry a weapon in New York City unless approved by the Police Commissioner of that city. Below that is my thumb print. My sister got her first permit a couple years ago and it's the same deal. I can purchase any handgun as long as my background check isn't expired and the FFL dealer then gives me some paperwork which I take to the county clerk, pay a small fee and they type it up on my permit and I go back to the dealer and pick it up. When I sold my 38 snubby to my sister we had to fill out a form for transfering a pistol off my permit onto hers and it had to be notarized but the county clerks office is also a notary so it wasn't a problem.
     
  6. Hugo

    Hugo Member

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    FYI please remember the New York Post is usually very biased and "Out of line with reality". I guess even a broken clock is right 2 times a day.
     
  7. freyasman

    freyasman Member

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    I was told this same story back in 1990 or 91 by a man named Matt Talty, when I was working at Carter's Country in Houston. He was a regular at the store, and IIRC he was an attorney working for the city back then. (His father was also the Doctor who delivered me:) Small world, huh?
     
  8. parsimonious_instead

    parsimonious_instead Member

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    When I tell people outside of my state that you need a permit just to own a handgun, I get a look of disbelief. When I tell people inside of my state that most states don't require a permit just to own a handgun, I get a look of disbelief.
    I'm glad I endured the pistol permit process - I thoroughly enjoy handguns, and since so many people find it daunting, I find it sort of a satisfying and "exclusive" thing to have.
    My advice to anyone contemplating obtaining the permit it this: stop thinking about it, and just do it. It's just a matter of time, and paperwork.
    Here are some things I'd recommend to people do:
    If you think you might want more than one handgun, you can buy more than one to start out with (you buy the gun(s) near the beginning of the process, because it's 'registered' to your permit).
    If you have a spouse, kid, parent, etc that wants to go for their permit, they can list your guns, too.
    If you've been arrested, whether convicted or not, you'll need to obtain the "disposition" records. Try to get working on those, especially if they occurred a while back and/or in another state.
    Remember that you need four "character references." I would work on getting four people to agree to provide them before you start the process, and perhaps asking a fifth or sixth person as a backup in case someone changes their mind or becomes otherwise unavailable.

    Let it be known that I think we're unfairly encumbered here in NYS with this process - I don't support it, but I'm willing to share my insights into how you can make things a bit easier on yourself, although it certainly is a pretty "locked down" system that can't be sped up or gamed.
     
  9. Millwright

    Millwright Member

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    Well the story does have the appearance of verisimilitude . Too bad the writer didn't dig deeper into the history of NYC.

    Gangs, particularly around the "Five-Points" preyed upon successive waves of immigrants. Eventually the immigrants discerned the cost of a firearm was less than the cost of "protection" and began to purchase arms to defend themselves and their neighbors/families. On the seedier side, prostitutes and grifters also learned a pistol was a deterant to being shakendown by these gangs.

    Sullivan, his henchmen, and all NYC politicians since have have shonw an universal contempt for NYC citizens' inalienable rights, being big on disarming their victims. OTOH, IME, a significant segment of NYC citizenry, being even more contemptuous of their politicians, carry a variety of personal side arms. >MW
     
  10. Esoxchaser

    Esoxchaser Member

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    So if a pistol isn't listed on that license, you can't have it in your possession? That seems rather peculiar, you already underwent an extensive background check to obtain the carry permit, but the nanny state still wants to tell you that you have to limit yourself to guns they listed on your permit? Sounds like a kids game of "Mother may I?"
     
  11. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Ever so often you see an article on NYC gun laws about how there's about 25,000 legally permitted handguns in NYC and occassionally--attributed to NYPD or ATF--the estimate of one to two million illegal handguns in NYC, usually accompanied by a plug for extending Sullivan Act controls nationwide to solve that problem.

    Wikipedia notes: "(Timothy David) Sullivan left no diaries and very few private letters. Autobiographical materials come largely through his own statements in the press of his era."

    He ran the gangs in his ward, but he gave the poor food, clothing and coal in the winter, and they voted for him, some up to four times each. During the time of the 1911 Sullivan Act, "Big Tim" Sullivan was suffering from tertiary syphilis, paranoid delusions, claimed he was being spied on and his food was being poisoned. He was institutionized in 1912, escaped his orderlies 31 Aug 1913 and was run over by a train. (The engineer claimed he was laying inert on the tracks.) His family did not report him missing for ten days and he was almost buried in Potter's field. Big guy, tailored suit, diamond cufflinks monogrammed "TDS", undamaged face--the politically appointed coroner signed the death certificate as John Doe. A random policeman assigned to morgue detail recognized the body before it was removed to Potter's field. In 1914 Gotham Film Co. released "The Life of Big Tim Sullivan; Or, From Newsboy to Senator" a silent movie; not so silently his family members fought for seven years over his $2.5 million estate (adjust 1913 $ for inflation = $58 million 2012 $).
     
  12. 22250Rem

    22250Rem Member

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    Esoxchaser; You are correct, I'm not supposed to be walking around with pistols that aren't on my permit. That means I can only carry pistols that I legally own, and not someone else's pistol. When you see this media crap about NY gun laws, 99.9% of the time they are talking about New York City, which might as well be a seperate state and there have been proposals in years gone by to turn this into two states. Too bad they never got very far with that idea. If I buy another pistol I just have to go through the federal instant check stuff and take some of the paperwork to the county clerk and they put it on my permit. I don't even recall anything about our waiting period because it usually takes me about a week to get to the clerk's office due to my work schedule and by then it's a non-issue. The LGS I usually frequent is owned by a gunsmith who is also a retired county sheriff. Last time I was at the county clerks office to add something to my permit I got to talking to someone in there about Glocks cause he saw one listed on my permit. So all in all, when it comes to guns, western NY STATE is not what these mainstream media outlets would have you believe.
     
  13. friscolatchi

    friscolatchi Member

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    This, but you can have another persons pistols on your permit as well. They don't necessarily have to be in your possesion. For example, I can have my neighbors pistols on my permit and vice versa.
     
  14. friscolatchi

    friscolatchi Member

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    This, but you can have another persons pistols on your permit as well. They don't necessarily have to be in your possesion. For example, I can have my neighbors pistols on my permit and vice versa.
     
  15. 22250Rem

    22250Rem Member

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    I didn't know you could have your neighbor's pistol on your permit and I forgot that I've heard that someone in your immediate family could also legally use your pistol if your gun is also on their permit (?). Is this true? Everyone I know with a permit has their own pistols and nobody else's. I'm obviously no expert on the subject; and I can't see me using someone else's pistol unless it's just to try it out at the range or something. If I find another one and like it I'll just buy it and have it added to my permit. My sister got her permit a couple years ago and I sold her my J frame S&W .38 mod. 642. If her husband got his permit could the 642 be put on his permit and still stay on hers? I think that may be possible but maybe I'm wrong. I'll have to talk to the retired sheriff that owns the LGS. He's a wealth of information when it comes to questions like that. (And remember; we're NOT talking about the ridiculous gun laws in NY City, which might as well be a different state when it comes to gun laws).
     
  16. Redlg155

    Redlg155 Member

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    I'm just thankful that in Florida we can carry whatever we want when the whim strikes us.
     
  17. friscolatchi

    friscolatchi Member

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    Rem. my wife has all my pistols on her permit. Red, it is a pita. However there are some benefits. 1. Permit is for life, no renewal. 2. Carry anywhere. Bars, civic events, any where there is no metal detector, except the usual restricted places. 3. No duty to notify PD. But use good judgement.
     
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