Interesting Hawaii Case on Concealed Carry

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xjchief

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Here's an interesting case the state is trying to dismiss on the basis that the 2nd Amendment is a collective right, not an individual one. Keep in mind that the Hawaii Constitution's 2nd amendment bears the exact same language as the US Constitution. Haven't been able to find any other info regarding a possible dismissal or pending action in the case...

Being that they share the same language they have to mean the same thing, right? :evil:

Lawsuit Filed in Hawaii Over Denial of 'Right to Concealed Carry'
By George K. Young Jr., 9/24/2007 3:00:44 PM

On Aug. 24, 2007, I filed a civil lawsuit in the United States Federal District Court for the District of Hawaii, CV 07-00450HG/KSC. The purpose of the lawsuit is to seek damages, under 42 U.S.C. 1983, 1985, and 1986, for denying and prohibiting the free exercise of my Second Amendment Right.

On three previous ocassions, I have applied for either a concealed or unconcealed permit to carry a firearm and was denied. Since no attorney in the State of Hawaii is willing to take this case, I filed Pro Se.

The Defendants are the state of Hawaii and Gov. Linda Lingle; Mark Bennett, State Attorney General; County of Hawaii and Mayor Harry Kim; the Hawaii Police Department and Chief of Police Lawrence Mahuna.

I am suing for violation of:

* a. U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 10: "No State shall pass any Bill of Attainder."

* b. U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 10: "No State shall pass any ...law Impairing the Obligation of Contract.

* c. U.S. Constitution, Amendment II: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

* d. U.S. Constitution, Amendment IX: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

* e. U.S. Constitution, Amendment XIV: "...No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of CITIZENS of the United States..."

The Hawaii County Corporation Counsel, on 15 September 2007, initiated a "Motion to Dismiss" based on the following: "2. Young's lack of facts to support a cognizable legal theory also mandates dismissal of his Complaint. Young has no Second Amendment right to bear arms ... "the Second Amendment guarantees a "collective" rather than an individual right.

"Moreover, since the Second Amendment protects the people's right to maintain an effective state militia, and does not establish an individual right to own or possess firearms for personal or other use, Young lacks standing to challenge Section 134, HRS."

U.S. District Court Judge Helen Gilmore will hear the motion scheduled for Nov. 13, 2007.

It has become very apparent that the people of Hawaii, especially gun owners, should be made aware that they have now "lost" their constitutional right.

First, the implementation of "reasonable" laws; permit to acquire with photo and fingerprints; then waiting periods; then registration; then place to keep; and now ...no right to own or possess. Socialism, has now come to full circle to exist fully unrestrained here in Hawaii.

What is troubling, is how do you amend the Hawaii Constitution, Article 17 Bill of Rights, to which the Second Amendment was incorporated verbatim, under the assertion that it was an "individual right" in 1959?

The language is the same, how the meaning and purpose for which it was passed has now changed, without the permission of "...we the people". It is now the "...tail wagging the dog." The servant is now master. That which is Supreme is inferior. In other words, "...we now have a bastardized version of the U.S. Constitution."
 
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I would like to take this route in my state.. I would just need to change the names. I would need to apply and be denied first however...

I have already completed the paper, so soon enough.
 
We all hang together.

I just sent a very polite letter to my governor, Jim Doyle, on his website, including a cut and paste of the same info.
 
Anyway, this guy messed up royally.

First off, he sued in a federal court under the Second Amendment where he can't use the state RKBA provision.

What he needs to do is apply for a permit to open carry. When that's denied, sue in state court under the state and US constitutions. We'll see some better results. Given that Heller gave us a tremendous amount to work with on the open carry front, I think he may succeed IF he has an attorney instead of doing it pro-se.
 
Hawaii is very restricted and very much a good ole boy system. If he is serious, he really needs to have his ducks in a row big time.
 
I'm trying to get a hold of him but no luck so far to see what happened with his case.

From the little information I have found it looks like the county and state filed to have his case dismissed and the judge ruled without a hearing granting the dismissal. Again, he couldn't find an attorney in the state that would even take the case so quit dogging him for trying to do it himself- he had no other option.

If I can ever get in touch with him I'll post what happened.
 
No. He could have done two things:

1) Wait until Heller was decided.

2) File in state court under the state constitution under the auspices of State v. Mendoza (1996) after attemping to apply for a open carry license.
 
With the unanimous support, by SCOTUS, of the 2nd describing an "individual right" he may be able to refile. And since he has "standing" he may be able to get the NRA to provide legal support.
 
I am suing for violation of:

* a. U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 10: "No State shall pass any Bill of Attainder."
lol wut? A bill of attainder is an act of the legislature that declares that a specific person is guilty of a crime, without the benefit of a trial.
 
awkx said:
a specific person is guilty of a crime

Plenty of precedence. Abraham Lincoln is infamous for suspending Habeous Corpus.

I think the better parallel would be a Writ of Mandamus. By order of a court, I can perform duties specified for the court. With this order, I could come to your home and take your guns. You may have not yet been adjudicated for any crime.

Don't take this ruse lightly. Bikers could cite this writ when faced with "security" people (in affect "mall ninjas") hired by a promoter.

Touch the biker, and you wind up in an ER and you get sued. Love the writ.
 
I wouldnt mind filing in NJ myself, if I could get the filing in order... I think I would need help with that however. I have a CCW application ready to go btw.... It will be denied, due to the current state of affairs in this ummm #$%#$ state..

I was also thinking about applying for an "Assault Weapons" permit to buy a M1 Carbine.. I always wanted one, however it is BANNED in NJ. I can however obtain a M1A, Mini14, etc no problem...

:cuss::banghead::what:
 
I have a hard time believing that in the entire state of HI, there was not a single lawyer willing to take his case.

My guess is he could not afford a lawyer so filed pro se, and not having a clue about the legal system had the thing tossed out.

I could of course be wrong, but that is my guess.
 
Hopefully he drops this case. Right now would be the wrong time to be filing pro-se cases that are going to bring up the incorporation issue - especially when a professional legal team dedicated solely to this issue has already filed a similar suit in San Francisco (same Circuit Court of Appeals).

Pro-se is a losing battle 99% of the time. Pro-se in the Ninth Circuit on a Second Amendment case? That is like handling your own brain surgery while drinking a bottle of whiskey to ease the pain.
 
Hopefully he drops this case. Right now would be the wrong time to be filing pro-se cases that are going to bring up the incorporation issue - especially when a professional legal team dedicated solely to this issue has already filed a similar suit in San Francisco (same Circuit Court of Appeals).

Pro-se is a losing battle 99% of the time. Pro-se in the Ninth Circuit on a Second Amendment case? That is like handling your own brain surgery while drinking a bottle of whiskey to ease the pain.

Maybe notice can be sent to the folks you mention and they can pick it up.
 
Is summary dismissal

considered to establish precedent?

If not, then the best we can hope for is for this fool to get tossed out on his ear, before his poorly-worded and incompetently argued lawsuit can do any damage.

If so, then he needs to get some serious private pressure to withdraw his suit.

What we really, really do not need right now is a bunch of idiots going off on their own, filing cases that they are sure to lose, with potentially devastating consequences for our rights. Gura and company, and now the NRA, are being very careful to pick specific, narrow cases, with great plaintiffs and simple claims. They're using an icepick, not a wrecking ball.

Because each case is so narrowly chosen, each will be clearly ruled upon. Each decision forms the basis for the next lawsuits. By the time they get to the big issues, the overall logic will be unassailable.

It's almost as if someone's been studying the NAACP strategy from the 1920s to the 1950s. If the NAACP had sued the Topeka school board in 1934, they'd have lost, and half the country would still be living under despotism and apartheid.

--Shannon
 
Now that Heller has been decided, perhaps he could add a demand for legal fees and costs. That might interest a local lawyer.
 
Is summary dismissal considered to establish precedent?

I don't think so for several reasons.

First off - the issue at hand was never actually adjudicated.

Secondly, IIRC, a case at a lower court level has no value as a precedent. It has to go to a higher level court, and even then the precedent only holds within the jurisdiction of that higher level court.
 
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