Interesting John Farnam comments on Dog Attacks

[Kestrel]

==========================
29 Feb 04

Dog Attack:

"A colleague suffered a serious dog attack last week. Marv was a member of a bond enforcement team (bounty hunters) attempting to arrest a local bail jumper. He and two metro police officers went to the back of the house where the bail jumper was living to cut off escape routes, while the rest of the team went to the front door. As he moved around the house to the rear, the suspect opened the back door and released a large pit bull. The dog immediately charged across the back porch and, without hesitation, leapt directly at Marv's throat!

The dog struck Marv's raised left arm, fell to the ground, bounced back up, and, once more, lunged at Marv's throat. Marv punched the dog in the head, knocking it back to the ground. Marv punched him down several more times, as he moved backward. Finally, the dog settled for a less advantageous line of attack and firmly attached his jaws to Marv's right shin. Marv finally drew his SIG220 (230gr Speer Gold Dot), and shot the dog in the neck and shoulders four times in rapid succession. The dog let go, backed off, and then came at Marv again! Marv, using his sights, immediately fired two more shots, this time into the head of the charging animal. The dog, struck in the head and face by both rounds, staggered and fell, DRT.

All six of Marv's rounds found their mark. Five bullets stopped, fully expanded, in the dog. One, fully expanded, went through and through. The one that went through and through, exited (mostly spent) and then struck Marv's right leg just above the in the ankle. Marv's wound was not serious but did require surgery.

Metro officers who witnessed the event were amazed at the speed of Marv's reaction. The first four rounds were fired so fast, witnesses all thought there were only two!"

Lesson: Most dog attacks end only when there is a fatality, yours or the dog's! It is no time for half measures. When tangled up with a dog, it is not hard to imagine getting a body part on line with a potential bullet exit point. No matter what happens, you have to keep fighting. As my friend and fellow instructor, Keith Jones, is fond of saying, "Pistol fights resemble fist fights much more than they do tactical, nuclear attacks!" When shooting a pistol in an emergency we must:

1) Distract our enemy's focus 2) Disrupt his plan 3) Disable his body 4) Destroy his will to fight

In the case of a pit bull, point four is accomplished only with the death of the animal. This isn't Disneyland!

/John
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Quips

 

[Mannlicher]

I recognize parallels here with some of my experieces in the past, when I would help my brother in law clear out packs of feral dogs, that infested the forest he was head ranger for. We always hunted in tandem, one with a Ruger Semi Auto carbine in .44 mag, the other with a Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen loaded with #1 buck or BB. Some of those darn dogs took a heap of killing.

 

[444]

I would love to see some statistics done on the things discussed on this board. Shooting dogs certainly has to be one of the most popular topics on this board. At least one of the top 10.

 

[DMK]

I would love to see some statistics done on the things discussed on this board. Shooting dogs certainly has to be one of the most popular topics on this board. At least one of the top 10.

It's also probably one of the most likely situations we could get into where a defensive firearm would be necessary.

I'd say a lot more folks get attacked by dogs than by people.

 

[itgoesboom]

Also one of the scarier types of attacks. I know I would rather be attacked by a 300lb felon than a 100lb dog.

I.G.B.

 

[Stand_Watie]

I'm glad for his sake that it was a vicious pit bull and not a vicious great dane or st. bernard.

If we could only figure out some way to impregnate the urban legend that hairless chijuajuas are the most dangerous, evil, vicious, psychotic animals on the planet into the minds of drug dealers and assorted other anti-social individuals, we'd have 90% of serious dog maulings licked.

 

[itgoesboom]

Yeah, that would be pretty funny. It would also probably start a new "what round for a Chihauhua (sp)".

I am thinking .17HMR or .22lr, or would .22mag be too much?

I.G.B.

 

[Mikul]

or would .22mag be too much?

.22 mag would ruin the pelt.

Dogs, in general, need a lot to put them down. They may be dead after the first of second round, but that doesn't seem to bother them. Four or five rounds is good. They even need a second helping of 12 gauge.

 

[DadOfThree]

If we could only figure out some way to impregnate the urban legend that hairless chijuajuas are the most dangerous, evil, vicious, psychotic animals on the planet

I don't know about dangerous but they already get my vote for most evil, vicious, and psychotic animal on the planet. And don't forget annoying

 

[MBG]

If we could only figure out some way to impregnate the urban legend that hairless chijuajuas are the most dangerous, evil, vicious, psychotic animals on the planet

Urban Legend? Those things are mean. A pack of them is like a fleet of land piranhas.

Nothing but bones left, when they’re done.

Marty

 

[Penforhire]

I haven't tried it myself but I heard you can defend against an attacking dog with a piece of paper. Held in both hands like a board at arm's length it confuses the animal and they don't know they can run through it. Probably would work on my dog, he's an idiot...

 

[Daniel T]

The one time I was seriously attacked by a dog (some kind of German Shepard mix), I was able to keep it from biting me by shoving my backpack into its mouth as I yanked out my knife and stabbed it in the head. I don't know that I'd want to try that with a piece of paper.

BTW, the blade of my knife did not penetrate the dog's skull, but did cut a furrow down the back of its skull to its neck. Apparently that was enough for it, because it ran off. Lucky me.

 

[gunsmith]

heh

If we could only figure out some way to impregnate the urban legend that hairless chijuajuas are the most dangerous, evil, vicious, psychotic animals on the planet

Shouldn't be to difficult,we have all ready convinced the gang bangers they look "tough" in those silly clown outfits they wear,baggy pants with underwear showing...I once saw this guy trying to run away from the cops,every 2 steps he had to pull up his pants,it was really funny.

The dogs however are a different story,I used to live in NYCitys lower east side in the 1980's during the crack epidemic,the pits around there look like you need a 45/70 to take them down,I witnessed a pit pull being shot,it took close to 30 rounds of 9mm to convince it to stop attacking,but it never let go of the poodle it killed.
I am hoping that if I ever get attacked my .357 will handle it,but there is only 5 shots in my snubby

 

[Calhoun]

Tricking dogs w/paper.

I have done this. It was not fun, I do not want to do it again, but I'm glad that it worked.

 

[Ivy Mike]

A friend of the family was on a drug raid when he was attacked by a dog. The officer was able to put the dog down with a string of .40 Gold Dots, but had powder burns because the dog (a Rottweiler) knocked him down after being shot and continued to attack. He counted his rounds and said he had fired eight into the dog. Luckily, he got away with only slight powder burns and cuts/punctures from the dog.

He said the rabies treatment was far worse than the attack ever was.

 

[Leatherneck]

Well, if a shotgun is out for logistical reasons, I think a baseball bat is a pretty effective weapon for doggies. Pistols are too much of a challenge to draw, aim and fire effectively against a fast-moving target like an attacking dog. You may get lucky, but we've heard an awful lot of stories about multiple shot fiascos involving dogs.

FWIW, I won't be volunteering to try out the sheet of paper thingie...

TC
TFL Survivor

 

[TallPine]

I'm glad for his sake that it was a vicious pit bull and not a vicious great dane or st. bernard.

in the case of the saint bernard, you would likely be drowned in saliva

 

[lee n. field]

Also one of the scarier types of attacks. I know I would rather be attacked by a 300lb felon than a 100lb dog.

Abso-effining- lutely. I could probably outrun a 300 pound felon, and wouldn't be afraid of him (or her, and _that's_ a scary thought) biting at my ankles, nuts, neck, etc..

 

[Ed Straker]

'Shouldn't be to difficult,we have all ready convinced the gang bangers they look "tough" in those silly clown outfits they wear,baggy pants with underwear showing...I once saw this guy trying to run away from the cops,every 2 steps he had to pull up his pants,it was really funny.'

That's why the 'gangstas' shoot each other these days. Because if they got in a fistfight, their pants would fall down.

...

I deliver pizzas, and can't tell you the number of times there's been a little Chihuahua yapping at me, and the owner, completely serious, says, 'Don't worry, he won't hurt you.'

Luckily, I've never had to deal with any real dogs.

 

[Mute]

If we could only figure out some way to impregnate the urban legend that hairless chijuajuas are the most dangerous, evil, vicious, psychotic animals on the planet into the minds of drug dealers and assorted other anti-social individuals, we'd have 90% of serious dog maulings licked.

Ha ha. A most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodent.

 

[1911Tuner]

Dog Attacks

There's a simple reason that angry dogs rarely succumb easily or quickly.
It's psychological. They don't know that, after being shot that they're
supposed to fall down and be incapacitated. Probably 'cause they never
read Marshall and Sanow's book...

Rather fight a 300-pound BG than a 100-pound dog? Brother, ya don't hafta go that large. 50 pounds is plenty if the dog is serious. 100 pounds,
and you'll likely need a 30-caliber rifle to put him down without gettin' a bit
shredded.

Woof!

Tuner

 

[Kestrel]

Leatherneck,

You might be surprised at the lack of ease in putting down a dog with a baseball bat. Their speed can be astonishing and if your timing was PERFECT, you might get one good hit, before he closed the distance and you lose the advantage of centrifugal force in swinging the bat. When he's on his way to you, his head is bobbing as he's digging in and it's hard to hit.

When he's on you, you can't swing the bat with as much force. You would also be surprised at your body's reactions to the dog, hampering your ability to effectively deliver blows.

I saw an animal control officer being attacked by a pit bull. The dog was clamped down on her arm, whipping it's head back and forth, trying to shred her arm. She was trying to hit the dog with some sort of a stick (looked like a night stick), with no effect. She might as well have been spitting on the dog. The dog was all business.

The best defense to a dog attack, is a near-contact head shot. With a caliber that will penetrate the skull.

Steve

 

[1911Tuner]

Dog on a Stick

An effective defense against a dog that hasn't been attack-trained is a
lance. A stick about 6 feet long, an inch and a half in diameter, sharpened
to a point does the trick.

A dog tends to clamp down on the closest thing to him. When the charge is iminent, hold the stick well in front of you. When the dog ties onto the
end of the stick, shove it aggressively down his throat, and press the counterattack until the dog is backing up. He probably won't figure it out
the first time unless he's really sharp, and will launch a second strike. The second time will convince him. Dogs being predators, the instinct is to break off the attack if the adversary is able to hurt or dominate them.

Ah...the ubiquitous walking stick. More useful than one might suspect.

Woof!

Tuner

 

[carpettbaggerr]

50 lbs wouldn't worry me, I could pick them up by the scruff of the neck and throw them a good distance. 100 lbs is starting to get dicy though I could probably fight one off with bare hands ( well, steel toed boots) if I had to. Great Danes and Mastiffs can kill you easily all by themselves. They were bred to kill humans and can bite right through an entire leg of lamb -- bone and all.

 

[LCSNM]

A well placed Khukuri works well!