Interior building materials penetration: 5.56 vs .30 Carbine

[Snowdog]

Out of curiosity, which would penetrate 2x4s and drywall most readily, a 110gr .30 carbine at around 2,000 fps or a 55gr .223 at around 3,000 fps?

I'm currently under the impression the heavier, slower .30 carbine would dig deeper through the house, especially when drywall is involved. However, I don't know a whole lot about the .223 Remington and will soon have an M4-style AR-15.

Though I find the .30 carbine JSP expands well in a liquid medium, I doubt a it would expand/significantly deform in building materials (at least in any way that will make a difference when zipping through walls). I do wonder, with its much lighter construction and a velocity advantage of 50% greater than that of the .30 carbine, if a .223 in JSP or JHP configuration would be the better choice indoors (aside from the likely greater muzzle blast/flash).

Of course, I know both will penetrate some degree of interior building materials. I'm just curious which should be expected to penetrate more.

The Bushmaster XM15E2S is most likely what I'll purchase and shortly after, I'll put some rounds through some drywall and 2x4s with it and my M1 Carbine. If those results are of any interest, I'll post them here.

BTW, I'm in no hurry to switch from my M1 Carbine for defensive purposes and may ultimately not. I have great confidence in this underrated round/rifle. I'm simply curious.

 

[Zerodefect]

I'd guess the .30, but I don't play with those often. Slower and heavier should hold together better. A little .223 going 3000+fps gets shredded quick.

But the .30 is still moveing allfully fast at 2000+.

Wait, do you want to penetrate walls effectively? The 5.56 should be OK for home defense, just don't expect it to cut through bricks.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I would have to agree that the .30 Carbine would penetrate more readily. The moderate velocity rounds usually have pretty good reputations for penetration because their rounds do tend to stick together better, and because they tend to shoot bullets considerably heavier than most of the hyper-velocity rounds.

 

[Hatterasguy]

.30 carbine will go through a lot better. I know an ex cop who responded to a shooting once where an ex Marine shot his wife and her BF in the BF's truck in a fit of rage. He used an M1 carbine and my cop friend said those rounds sliced the car up like butter.

5.56 is a bit more spotty, unless your shooting like M855 or SSA's TSX round. Hollow point 5.56's won't go to far in drywall and plywood. M855's will.


.30 carbine got a bad rep in the Korean war but I think a lot of those story's are unfounded or distorted. Its a very good round.

 

[desidog]

Until you get into the type of bullets, as alluded to by Hatteras above, it is a bit of a crap shoot depending on what angles to walls, what studs in walls, and if it hits a nail and goes 25 degrees left or right. Overall, i'd say, put it in the intruder...but if you have a .223 FMJ then a 30carbine is less likely to hit your neighbor (and the BG first of course), but if it's a Hornady TAP, well...the table just turned.

I'd consider noise. The .223 is going to leave you deaf blind and dumb....without playing a mean game of pinball....if you light it off in your house. The .30...yup, that's the way i lean.

 

[crazyivan]

I would say .30 carbine too.
But if you are getting a new rifle and you want it to go through anything but dont want a fullpowered round than get a rifle in 7.62x39.
And when it comes to flash a AK with a NCstar three prong flash hider gives off no flash at all, at least outside it does.

 

[tactikel]

For any penetration comparisons check out the "box 'o truth" they have answered probably all of you questions and then some.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

 

[Al Thompson]

This is the best wall penetration article on the net. Box of truth is good, but this is better:

http://230grain.com/showthread.php?65428-Ammunition-Drywall-Penetration-Analysis-Test-(Adpat)

 

[GunTech]

The lack of penetration by the 223 is exactly why it has replaced the 9nmn SMG for police use. Several three letter agencies tested subguns against the 5.56 and found out much to their surprise that the 5.56 was actually the least likely round to overpenetrate and become a hazard to bystanders in urban operations.

As noted, ammo does make a difference.

And as also noted, 30 carbine has a (probably) undeserved reputation. Ball ammo in moderate velocity cartridge isn't going to be representative of what the round can do. 30 Carbine has better velocity than typical pistol round and with good ammunition, should perform very well.

Sadly, cheap blasting/practice ammo for the carbine has gone the way of the dodo.

Anyone know how the 5.45x39 performs against walls?

 

[C-grunt]

A JSP or JHP out of a 5.56/.223 doesnt penetrates very well through walls and such. Thats one of the big reasons most PDs dropped the subguns and have gone to carbines. Also the non FMJ .223/5.56 does significantly more damage than the subguns.

As far as penetration against the .30 carbine I think it will be an interesting experiment for you. I never had too much under penetration problems in the Army using the green tip M855 unless it was against stone or brick.

 

[Snowdog]

Actually, I'm preferring less interior penetration but I'm more curious than anything; I'm not particularly obsessed with over-penetration.

I do greatly enjoy the energies and magazine capacity these carbines afford (both AR-15s and M1 carbines) and accept the greater interior penetration as a trade-off.

 

[C-grunt]

Actually, I'm preferring less interior penetration but I'm more curious than anything; I'm not particularly obsessed with over-penetration.

I do greatly enjoy the energies and magazine capacity these carbines afford (both AR-15s and M1 carbines) and accept the greater interior penetration as a trade-off.

A .223 hollow point of soft point generally penetrates less than handgun rounds.

 

[MichaelK]

I've picked up some railroad tie bases (they are 1/2 inch steel) that I use as falling targets. The .30 carbine rounds bounce off this, while .223 FMJ will punch a hole through. If they can go through a 1/2 inch steel plate, they'll go through a 1/2 inch sheet of plasterboard.