Irritating problem with a vagrant. Advice wanted.

[Azrael256]

A few friends of mine, four young ladies, have been having a bit of a problem with a certain fellow coming by their house looking for work. They have been, with a little assistance from a few of us fellows, fixing up their house and yard. So, this rather scruffy looking dude keeps coming to their house at inappropriate times (tonight it was around 2200) asking if they will hire him to work on the place. His story has evidently changed about a dozen times, so his intentions are probably not as honest as he would have them believe.

This evening, when he came by, two of us unpleasant looking gentlemen stepped out onto the porch, and his demeanor changed dramatically. He actually winced when he caught sight of me (I'm used to people doing that). Rather than further attempting to persuade the ladies to hire him, he started to make an exit, but then he stopped. He inquired as to whether or not we might give him "a cold one," to which I replied, as unpleasantly as possible, that we do not drink. He said goodbye, waved, and toddled off.

Fortunately, these four ladies are no fools when it comes to home defence. They have three large, unpleasant looking, alert, and exceptionally loud dogs. They also posess at least one firearm, and we're all going to have a little classroom session from Azzy about just how to use it properly. We're in decent shape should this wierdo decide to try something.

So, I'm curious as to what to do. Enlighten me.

 

[esheato]

I think you have a great start.

Let's look at what they've done right:

Multiple personnel at the location.
Big vocal dogs.
Firearm and the knowledge how to utilize it.

A few things that I could think of would be to add a motion sensor front porch light or advise the police and request a increase in the amount of drive bys during the time window of harrassment. Ensure they lock up all doors and windows all the time.

Be aware and trust your gut.

If that doesn't work, I would let him know in no uncertain terms that he isn't welcome and the authorities will be contacted with further attempts at contact.

Ed

 

[gunsmith]

track him down

and take his picture, alert local police he has been a nuisance.
Some cities you can get a stay away order.

Once you take his picture (perfectly legal btw)
Tell him your getting a cease and desist order (or some such official sounding thing).

If he comes back pepper spray with large amounts of spray as soon as he steps on property.
I had some vagrants in SF that needed 7 to 10 doses before it penetrated their drug addled brains to go elswhere.

 

[Leatherneck]

I second the motion to notify law enforcement. Simply make a report. That way, you'll be the first on the record in case trouble escalates.

TC

 

[1 old 0311]

Good advice Gunsmith. Make sure that he sees them taking his picture, and notify the Police. This guy is staking the place out. Four on one don't mean crap. Remember the A-H that killed the seven student nurses in Chicago years ago? All he had was a knife.

Kevin

 

[foghornl]

Remember the A-H that killed the seven student nurses in Chicago years ago

{Some time in the '60s, dont remember exactly}

Richard Speck. Got caught only because nurse #8 hid somewhere. That story still sickens me.

One armed nurse with the will/training to use said arms, would have made a HUGE difference in that case.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Or, you could let the guy do some work in exchange for food.
Every homeless person isn't a criminal. You've already let him know that you're around and that you mean business. If he comes back, sit him down and talk to him as if he were a real person. Then, offer to let him do some work in exchange for food, not cash.

Most likely, he's chosen to be homeless, but that doesn't make him a criminal. And, if "Azzy" thinks he can handle whatever this homeless guy can throw his way, then what the heck. Take his picture, get his info, do whatever you need to do to feel safe. Let the guy work for his supper.

 

[isa268]

http://themartialist.com/0104/beggarploys.htm
http://themartialist.com/0104/affirm.htm
http://themartialist.com/0703/offramp.htm

Many times homeless are mentally disturbed. I also second calling the police filing a report and maceing him the next time he steps on your property...he'll get the idea sooner or later.

 

[Azrael256]

Or, you could let the guy do some work in exchange for food

Er... no. I don't live there. It's four girls who are pretty mean and tough, but I'd rather not invite potential trouble into the house. Even if I lived there with a detachment of Delta guys, I still wouldn't want to let a known wierdo into my house. They knew from the first encounter that this fellow was not all warm and fuzzy, and my instincts agree wholeheartedly with their assessment.

So, the plot thickened (slightly) last night. It turns out that a cordless drill left in the garage has come up missing. Anybody want to take a wild guess at who suspect #1 is? The girls are filing a report on the theft, and I'm having them mention "gee, officer, we've been hassled by this suspicious wierdo lately..." Pictures to follow if he comes back I told them not to open the door for him again, but to let the dogs loose in the house, ready a weapon, and take a quick polaroid through the window to give to the police.

 

[fish2xs]

Or, you could let the guy do some work in exchange for food.

That's probably the worst idea I've heard all week that didn't come from Ted Kennedy.

Sounds like your current plan is fine. Dogs, photos, training in firearms.

Stay alert. Situational Awareness is 90% of safety.

 

[torpid]

Azrael256

So, this rather scruffy looking dude keeps coming to their house at inappropriate times (tonight it was around 2200) asking if they will hire him to work on the place. His story has evidently changed about a dozen times, so his intentions are probably not as honest as he would have them believe.

wheelgunslinger

Or, you could let the guy do some work in exchange for food.
Every homeless person isn't a criminal. You've already let him know that you're around and that you mean business. If he comes back, sit him down and talk to him as if he were a real person. Then, offer to let him do some work in exchange for food, not cash.

Most likely, he's chosen to be homeless, but that doesn't make him a criminal. And, if "Azzy" thinks he can handle whatever this homeless guy can throw his way, then what the heck. Take his picture, get his info, do whatever you need to do to feel safe. Let the guy work for his supper.

Wikipedia

...Just over eight months later, Brian David Mitchell, who was wanted by police for questioning because he had worked as a handyman at the Smart residence for one day in November 2001, was spotted by residents in the street with two companions not far from the Smart home in Sandy, Utah. The companions were Elizabeth Smart — disguised in a gray wig and veil — and Wanda Ileen Barzee. Smart was finally recognized by the officers during questioning, and was promptly reunited with her parents, little sister and four brothers. Mitchell and Barzee were taken into custody as suspected kidnappers.

Mitchell, who called himself "Immanuel David Isaiah," is speculated to have sought Smart as a bride.

Just sayin'...

 

[Lone_Gunman]

If he comes back, sit him down and talk to him as if he were a real person. Then, offer to let him do some work in exchange for food, not cash.

That is some of the worst advice I have ever heard. It sounds like the homeless guy is giving everyone the creeps. He has changed his stored and lied, which indicate he is untrustworthy.

People need to trust their instincts. If you get bad vibes from someone, don't ask them to come in for supper.

 

[mountainclmbr]

Pepper Spray before bullets. But have the bullets immediately ready. You may want to tell this "thing" that you are fearful of them and that the next encounter will be considered a possible assault. Spray them down and shoot if they escalate. But know local laws. If you live in a "Red" - socialist state you will probably need to permit them to do anything short of killing you. And if you can't stop them from that you can't stop them from killing you.

 

[Cosmoline]

They're the human equivalent of GARBAGE BEARS. In fact, this sort of thing typically only happens if you or someone in the house has given the guy something to begin with. I learned long ago never to give them so much as the time of day or a light. They'll take it as an open invitation to demand more and more. A stern, unequivical demand that they leave and never come back has worked for me--and this part of town is FULL of such people. They only keep coming around if they think someone in your house is a soft touch and will give them some $$ or cigs.

That is some of the worst advice I have ever heard. It sounds like the homeless guy is giving everyone the creeps. He has changed his stored and lied, which indicate he is untrustworthy.

Agreed. If you want to give to charity, give to charity. Don't give to the scary guy with the wild eyes

 

[Autolycus]

I agree with Cosmoline. I recently quit smoking (90 days as of April 9th!) and I used to give this bum...errr homeless gentleman a cigarette when he asked (he made it a point to always come and ask) and whenever I see him today he still harasses me for cigarettes or change. Its to the point where he gets agitated that I no longer have any smokes for him and do not wish to give him my money. I have an apartment behind my home and I catch them drinking and smoking something in the sidewalk seperating my property from the apartment complex. The ground is dug in and they sit on a concrete stoop. I was kind enough to give them a few smokes and now whenever the weather is nice they like to sit there and drink. I catch them throwing bottles in my yard or my neighbors yard and all kinds of crap. I caught one pissing on the side of my house. The worst was I caught one of them in my backyard after hopping the small fence in the corner in some bushes. He had his pants down and was squatting. Generally when a man squats to do his dirty work he is not going number 1 if you catch my drift and I was not in the mood to clean up anything I didnt do. So I called the cops and I call them whenever I see these guys.

If you give them money / smokes / a beer/ or whatever they will be back. And they will keep coming back asking for more like cats do when you leave milk out in the backyard. (We got a lot of strays!) It (I may have misread) is bad when the guy comes to the door to beg. I have one guy who comes by every Saturday to collect the cans out of our recycling bin. He understands that if he does not see a big garbage bag in the bin then there are no cans for him. I do not mind him as he goes through the garbage and puts everything he takes out back in. But he comes back and it seems that your friends problem is much worse then mine. My suggestions are have everyone get a CCW, a firearm, some training, and a cell phone. In addition the dogs are a great idea, a heavy door with a good lock and good hinges, and an alarm system.

Good luck and tell us how it goes.

 

[gazpacho]

Take his picture, print it up on a flyer along with a complete discription of his actions and pass it along to everybody within a 5 block radius. Your neighbors will be forewarned and opportunities will dry up for the Democrat voting patsy, um, I mean homeless individual.

 

[gunsmith]

Wheel gun slinger

While I certainly admire your take on the subject, having been homeless my self a long time ago when I was still drinking, I can tell you that enabling him to stay in his condition is no help what so ever.

The good Lord really will help those who ask him for help.

Most transients I have known (lots) are criminals of some sort.
Never invite them to stick around to see what you have, the days of leaving
food out for hobo's is long gone. if he wants work he can hang out in front of home depot and find it no problem.

Elizabeth Smart's dad hired the homeless and one stole power tools another stole his daughter.

I hate being around them now a days, a large portion of that hate is knowing what they are capable of.

 

[jerkyman45]

I grew up in a bad neighborhood, and there were a bunch of homeless people, some were harmless, some weren't. Never, ever let anyone you don't know or trust into your home. These guys may seem ok, but people are smart, they learn how to con their way in. Be smart and lock your doors.

 

[pete f]

I would say FLASH photos every time he shows up with time and ddate stamps and file a report, get a name and EMail at the police station and every time he shows up flash pics and forward them to the attending officer. LOT of traffic. Every single appearance is documented and forwarded to the cops. They like this makes it easy to convince prosecutors to do something.

I would also use pepper spray as a daily hello to the man. If you and your buddy are willing, perhaps an invitation to discuss it in the alley, followed by a "fellowship" meeting will be constructive.

When in college I was engaged to a girl who was going to school in the Chicago area. She and her dorm mates complained several times about a guy who would walk up from the tracks and ask for money and peer in windows, It was not until the spring when a girl was returning from the showers and found him her closet, did the cops pay attention to the complaints. Upon finally looking for and finding the guy, it was determined that he was a mental patient who had escaped and was a multiple offender on sex charges, never rape but lots of groping and was fond of "decorating" young girls windows.

Most of the people have dropped out of society for a reason. I really do not consider any of them harmless.

 

[Azrael256]

Well, I spent every evening this week at the house, but have seen neither hide nor hair of our friend. The girls have seen the presence of a non-threatening yet capable man as an opportunity. I do believe I have sunk fifteen fenceposts, strung 100' of wire, rebuilt two toilets, wired in a houseful of GFI outlets, repaired a stove, patched a sewer pipe, and installed new deadbolts, all while being dashing, handsome, and charming. It has been quite a task, but I have not wanted for pizza, beer, cigarettes, or Call Of Duty 2 all week. Life is good.

So, we had a little classroom session on how to operate a revolver. One of the ladies is the proud owner of a worn but cared for Model 19, and we all understand just how to use it. I secured a speedloader, and replaced her ammunition of unknown origin with some fresh rounds. Two of the other girls have the motivation, if not the funds to procure additional firearms, but one has requested that I take her gun shopping soon. We're going to try to get a little trigger time this friday. (Dionysusigma, call me if you want to go. NYJRebel and Q-Dog will likely attend.)

We rather seriously considered the possibility of arranging some sort of "come to Jesus" meeting with this fellow, but decided that while it may be morally defensible, it would be legally questionable. We're just going to wait and see. If he reappears, I'll instruct him to vacate the premises. If he doesn't turn tail and run, I'll hose him down, retreat if necessary, and make it rain police. I certainly hope macing him is the worst possible scenario, but I'm not stupid. Part of our classtime the other day was on how to work Azzy's guns and what "golden triangle" means.

If he does try something, I just hope he tries it in the back yard. American bulldogs. Three of 'em. There are exactly two men in the universe that these dogs like. One is me, and the other ain't him. It would be quite a sight. They probably wouldn't kill him, but they'll slow him down long enough for the girls to get the revolver and the telephone (and hopefully the video camera).

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

He actually winced when he caught sight of me (I'm used to people doing that).

That's what caught my curiosity----not being mean---just curious----are you looks challenged or just one big mean lookin dude???

 

[Azrael256]

No, I'm just that unattractive. That's why I like hanging out with these girls: they are of the "alternative lifestyle," so I never had a chance to begin with. It's comforting to know that I at least wouldn't be shot down for being monstrously ugly.

 

[Nitrogen]

Or, you could let the guy do some work in exchange for food.

Let me tell you a quick little story. It's about my father, the anti-gun, hippie, "spiritual" liberal.

He used to own a business in Arizona. He'd see those guys with "will work for food" signs on intersections. Every time he saw one, he'd give them his business card. "I run this office. Stop by, it's right down the street, and I'll find some work for you to do, and I'll buy you lunch, and pay you."

He must have handed out at least 500 cards. How many people came to work for him? One.
He didn't even stick around until lunch.

He did come back to try and rob the place, though.
(Never try and B&E into a company that specializes in security.)

You're right; a lot of these people are mentally ill, or otherwise in need of help. Letting someone you don't know into your personal space is rarely a good idea, if you value your safety. Unless you have the training to deal with someone like that; it's best to stay away.

Thank President Reagan, (and the Democratic Congress) in the '80's for closing most public mental hospitals.