Is a ~$1000.00 AK worth the money in your eyes?

Can an AK be worth about a grand?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 17.6%

  • No

    Votes: 74 72.5%

  • It depends on the following. . . .

    Votes: 10 9.8%
  • Total voters
    102
Status
Not open for further replies.
762x51,

Every bit as nice as my custom AR in the fit/finish dept.
Click to expand...

True, custom-built AK's are cool, but:

The main issues I see are:

1: The sights. Having the rear sight mounted to the sheet metal top cover does lengthen the sight radius, but that top cover will loosen and wiggle, no matter how tight it is fitted to begin with.

2: The safety. There is no way to flick it on and off while maintaining a firing grip. If Blackhawk Down is a training manual/video to you, disregard the previous.

3: The mag release. There is no way to change a magazine on an AK, no matter how well 'smithed, as fast as on an AR-type (or even FAL- or G3-type) weapon.

Like I said before: AK's are fantastic cheap military-style self-loaders. They start to fall down as expensive military-style self-loaders, unless one is personally just dying to own a bucks-up, rare, and unusual AK-type, like I was.
 
$1000.00 for an AK? What did PT Barnum say? Oh by the way I’ve got some good swampland in Arizona to sell.

If you going to spend that kind of money save a little bit longer and get an M1A if you don't like an AR.

Have a good day and remember to pray for our troops.

Turk
 
2: The safety. There is no way to flick it on and off while maintaining a firing grip. If Blackhawk Down is a training manual/video to you, disregard the previous.
Click to expand...

I can reach the safty tab with my index finger, sweep it off and maintain a grip on my rifle....
 
2: The safety. There is no way to flick it on and off while maintaining a firing grip. If Blackhawk Down is a training manual/video to you, disregard the previous.
Click to expand...
This isnt true. It can be done quickly using the tip of your middle finger on the lever of a standard selector(not an aftermarket one) with your hand on the grip. I dont have big hands and I have no problem at all. It can also be done using your thumb while your fingers are on or very near the grip and is almost equally as fast and can be totally quiet.

3: The mag release. There is no way to change a magazine on an AK, no matter how well 'smithed, as fast as on an AR-type (or even FAL- or G3-type) weapon.
Click to expand...
This isnt true either. While not as fast as an AR, it can be very close with practice. Its is faster than a FAL, HK or M1A(and carries 1/3 more ammo too). The mags can also be released with the firing hand on the grip again using the tip of the middle finger on a stock mag release with the muzzle slightly depressed and the mags will drop free 98% of the time by their own and if not, a quick shake will usually clear them. A new mag will rock in fast and the gun is recharged by reaching under and with the palm flat against the right side of the receiver and the thumb hooked on the charging handle and stroked. This is done every reload, whether the gun has stopped or not, that way it is ALWAYS loaded when the reload is done.

I think most of these type complaints and the reason for all the gimmicky add ons is most who bitch about the ergonomics have never really handled one and/or dont take the time to learn the weapon. With a little practice, the problems all seem to magically disappear.
 
AK103K,

It can be done quickly using the tip of your middle finger on the lever of a standard selector(not an aftermarket one) with your hand on the grip.
Click to expand...

Keeping your thumb in tenuous contact with the rear of the grip while pivoting your hand up to smack the selector with your middle finger is not the same thing as "a selector that can be operated while maintaining a firing grip."


Its is faster than a FAL, HK or M1A(and carries 1/3 more ammo too).
Click to expand...

Faster than an M1A? Yes. Faster than a FAL or HK-91? Well... I might toss back the "never really handled one and/or dont take the time to learn the weapon" comment. ;)

I've owned and trained with somewhere around a half-dozen AK's, as well as a few AR's, a FAL and an HK-91. After devoting time to learn the weapon, both the FAL and 91 are faster for me on mag changes than the AK, and the AR (obviously) leaves all three in the dust (if, of course, the mag drops free...)

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with an AK for what it is (else I wouldn't keep one around,) but to say "well, I've devised all these work-arounds for its ergonomic shortcomings" is not the same thing as saying "it has no ergonomic shortcomings."

No gun is perfect, not the AK, not the FAL, not none of 'em. Yeah, the AK is less ergonomic in nearly every respect than the FAL. It's also lighter, handier, and has less blast and recoil. It's usually cheaper, too. ;)


________________
"You can't make a racehorse out of a pig, but you can make a damn fast pig."
 
This package cost right at $1,000 and IMHO is worth it:
AR15.COM Special Edition AK for $650 (5.45x39, built by ORF on a new Bulgarian AK-74 kit, RSA adjustable trigger group, blued/parkerized, bayonet lug easily restored after 9/04, Bulgarian military AK-74 brake), BP-02 AK mount w/weaver rail for $45 & a new Eotech 512.A65 (Rev.F) for $300. The only thing left to do is add an extended mag release.
97SEAK_with_Eotech_002s-med.jpg

Tomac
 
The original question wasn't about the ergonomics of the AK's safety or mag release...... it was whether or not a custom AK could be worth $1000. ;) I think it's safe to say.....yes for some people, no for others. :D

I'm still going with the "You get what you pay for". AK's are no exception.



As for the ergo issues above.....

I personally don't find the AK safety to be much of an annoyance. Works OK for me. I do agree with Tamara on the mag release though. It's not as fast or natural as an AR, but it does work.

As for the receiver cover peep....I have mounted/dismounted the cover MANY times now, and it's just as solid as day one. Any little bit of movment that is there, isn't noticeable on the paper with a 2 MOA gun.

Sure...the design has some shortcomings (some of which have workarounds).....but that's not what this thread was about. ;)
 
Tamara,

I understand that a firing grip and your thumb on the grip are a little different, but not enough to make much of a difference. I'm still holding the grip while I sweep the safety off. Not much different than going the other way with your thumb for the HK's safeties. :)

As for the mag changes, I've owned more than a couple each of FAL's, HK's and M1A's to know how the mag changes go. When it comes to a mag change, the order of fastest, for me anyway, is AR, AK, FAL, HK, M1A. Then again, I work with the first two the most these days, ditched my FAL's a long time back(as fast as I could too, I might add. :) ) and not to long ago got rid of the 91's and M1A's. Your right, they all have their good and bad points. Its not so much "work arounds", for any of them for that matter, as its working with them. I dont think they are really ergonomic short comings, but rather just a different manual of arms that are foreign to those who dont work with them. I'm sure the troops from the old Soviet block countries, among a lot of others, have no trouble working them. Then again, thats what they trained on. Its not the guns fault if you cant work it. :) Practice and experience really do make the difference.

As for the AK against the FAL, there's no comparision, the AK has it! The FAL is a slow pig in a close in fast fight, in both handling and shooting. But then again, thats just my non-ergonomic opinion. YMMV. :D

ps: in case you hadnt noticed, I have had MAJOR issues with the FAL and was being nice only calling it a pig. If I only had some of the aggravation, and all of the money, ammo, and time I wasted on them, I'd have quite a few more of those $1000 AK's. :)
 
The Valmet is a nice gun, but as most have said, a modern day AK is still an AK, even when doctored up. I think a Colt AR15 has it all over an AK.xx, even my Valmet, although the Valmet has collector's value. YMMV
 
For me personally my perfect AK will actually end up costing more than $1000. I'm an avid 3gun competitor, I use a Vepr in competition constantly, and I probably have more rounds through an AK type rifle than anybody outside of the the Spetsnaz or maybe PvtPyle. :)

My next rifle is going to be a highly customized .223 Vepr specifically built up for 3gun competition. Using a slightly modified 7.62x39 I do pretty darn well if I don't say so myself.

I've got to address some of the stuff Tamara said. Tam I respect you, but on this one I've got to disagree with you.

1: The sights. Having the rear sight mounted to the sheet metal top cover does lengthen the sight radius, but that top cover will loosen and wiggle, no matter how tight it is fitted to begin with. - Nope. Not at all. I use the Krebs A2 dust cover mounted sights. No loss of zero while shooting. No loss of zero when I remove it for cleaning. None. I have shot 2 inch groups at 100 yards, and 5 inch groups at 200. Keeping in mind that I'm not the best bench rest shooter because I lack the patience, a real rifleman could do much better.

2: The safety. There is no way to flick it on and off while maintaining a firing grip. If Blackhawk Down is a training manual/video to you, disregard the previous. - I use my trigger finger. In fact my finger rests on the safety in its normal indexed position. I can operate the safety and keep a full firing grip. My hand does not move at all. But then again I am a mutant. But this is about personal rifles, not rifles for everybody. :) Plus the specific AK under discussion here uses a Galil style thumb safety.

3: The mag release. There is no way to change a magazine on an AK, no matter how well 'smithed, as fast as on an AR-type (or even FAL- or G3-type) weapon. - I have done sub 1.5 mag changes on my Vepr in competition. (with a round still in chamber mind you, from empty chamber add a lot more time) This is not much slower than the fastest you can do an AR reload. Keep in mind two things. First I shoot using the magazine as a vertical foregrip so my hand is already resting on it, and secondly I have probably done 100,000 practice mag changes. The top of my left trigger finger is a rock hard callus from where it fits between the mag and the receiver. :D

AKs have their weaknesses, no bolt hold open being the biggest. However do not make the mistake of thinking that a SAR is the same as a nice custom AK. Not all AKs are el-cheapo 6 MOA spray and pray peasant weapons. I can make mine sing. :p And my next one is going to absolutely rock.
 
2: The safety. There is no way to flick it on and off while maintaining a firing grip. If Blackhawk Down is a training manual/video to you, disregard the previous. - I use my trigger finger. In fact my finger rests on the safety in its normal indexed position. I can operate the safety and keep a full firing grip. My hand does not move at all. But then again I am a mutant. But this is about personal rifles, not rifles for everybody. Plus the specific AK under discussion here uses a Galil style thumb safety.
Click to expand...
agreed, tam, sorry I can reach the safty tab and sweep it off by just extending my finger sweeping it off and going right into the trigger guard in one fluid motion.

What's your definition of "maintaining a firing grip"?
 
I've got a grand in my custom built AK-74. Mine has a milled Firing Line receiver, Red Star Arms fire control group, and a K-Var Nato length stock set. I'm perfectly happy with my decision. Spend your money on what makes YOU happy.
 
If I really liked it, sure.

I don't understand these "is it worth it" questions. I don't think an AR-15 clone is worth $800-$1000. It is also a military design, created to be simple to build and easy to mass produce. As far as I'm concerned, they shouldn't cost more than $550 retail.

When the Austrailian new production Enfields were first discussed here, people were talking about how a high quality bolt gun, with a hardwood stocks, heavy barrel, all hand-fitted by one small company, wasn't worth more than $400 to them.

Many of these same people will spend $900 on an AR-15 clone that you can build yourself.

My point is, what something is "worth" to someone is extremely subjective. Some people will pay a grand for a rifle that other people wouldn't buy at any price (like me and AR-15s).

With all due respect to Tamara, in my experience changing mags on an AK isn't any slower than on a FAL. In any case you can buy a magazine release for the AK that allows you to drop the mag out with your trigger finger. You can also buy a safety lever that allows the same for you righties (the AK safety is fine for us lefties).
 
IMHO, yes. but it depends on who it is for really. Ilooked at the KTR03v, and I love the design, I love everything about it. I even had my checkbook itching to order one...but I didn't.

Why? Because I fell in love with a FAL and haven't looked back. Bought my second a month later. But, when funds permit, I'd like to have a KTR03v in my collection too.
 
I personally can't see it and so I voted no. There are so many rifles to buy and never enough money to do it. 1000 dollars is in my opinion a bit much for this type firearm. I know others have no problem with it but that is okay for them! Nope, I just can't bring myself to do it. I'd be thinking along the liunes of an M!A myself.
 
Unless M. Kalashnikov machined, assembled and signed the rifle himself, I think not. I have trouble shelling that kind of money out for a weapon I love and love the AK I do not. I like it well enough, it has many strong points. But... I mean, it's an AK.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top