is a shotgun pistol possible?

[SkaerE]

seems unless i'm missin something if someone could get a virgin receiver for a 12 gauge they could conceivably build a 12 gauge pistol.

am i wrong? i've seen a 600 nitro express pistol (and i dont THINK it required any extra type of licensing) but i could be wrong.

somethin like the serbu super shorty cept w.out the forward grip.

i would imagine if it were easy or hell, plausible, i would have seen one by now though...

anyone?

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Nope. It would still be an AOW.

 

[SkaerE]

care to elaborate? does it have to do with bore diameter, or the fact its a smoothbore?

 

[dfariswheel]

It has to do with the fact that it's a shotgun.

The ATF considers a shotgun to be a shotgun....PERIOD.
There are no "loop holes" that you can squeeze a pistol-sized shotgun through.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Which makes one wonder about those revolvers and derringers that shoot .410 shotgun shells. Not to mention shot shell cartriges in .38 spl, 9mm, and .45 ACP and .45 Colt.

I think it's a combination of the gauge and the size of the barrel, not simply the fact that they're shotguns.


LD

 

[SDC]

The way the derringers and revolvers get around this problem is that they're (1)RIFLED, and (2) JUST HAPPEN to accept 410 shells; they're actually chambered for 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 45-70, etc.

 

[Manedwolf]

seems unless i'm missin something if someone could get a virgin receiver for a 12 gauge they could conceivably build a 12 gauge pistol.

A shotgun is a shotgun is a shotgun. It's barrel length that counts, that's the thing. That's what they look at.

And go shorter than 18" without permission to buy or build an AOW, and BATFE will show up and step on your head, and you'll get a free moment of fame on the evening news as they dump every object in your home. Even trying to stuff a 12ga shell into an old metal 12ga flare pistol is a serious offense.

I would not advise trying it. You'd be a felon and lose all rights to firearms.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

And go shorter than 16" without permission to buy or build an AOW

18" and/or overall length of 26".

does it have to do with bore diameter, or the fact its a smoothbore?

Because one of the definitions of an AOW is "a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell."

 

[Manedwolf]

18" rather, yes. D'oh. Thinking of rifles this morning. Corrected in original post.

 

[MartinS]

http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

 

[MCgunner]

Tompson-Center won a lawsuit over the .410/.45 Colt barrel when the BATF tried to shut 'em down. It is rifled, so it is first a .45 Colt regardless of the fact that a .410 3" will fit in it and a choke screws on the end of it.

 

[wdlsguy]

A handgun with a rifled bore <= .50 caliber is a pistol.

A handgun with a rifled bore > .50 caliber is a Destructive Device.

A handgun with a smooth bore (regardless of caliber) is an AOW (Any Other Weapon).

 

[Zundfolge]

An AOW is only a $5 tax stamp so go ahead and buy a brand new shotgun receiver and a barrel, put on a pistol grip, fill out the paperwork and when it comes back cut down the barrel (easy enough to do with a pipe cutter ... or a hack saw if you're patient). I do seem to recall that whatever receiver you use can not have ever been made into a full size shotgun (thats why you need to start with a brand new receiver).


If you don't put a regular stock on it, you'll have to pay $200 to build a Short Barreled Shotgun. So put the pistol grip on and throw away the standard stock (if you have one).

There was an article a couple years ago in American Handgunner on doing just such a thing to make a double barreled shotgun pistol.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_170_28/ai_n6040331

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Whether you make a AOW or a SBS the Form 1 tax is $200 to make;
the Form 4 tax is $5 for an AOW and $200 for a SBS to transfer ownership.

Since an AOW can never legally wear a shoulder stock, but an SBS
can have either a shoulderstock or a pistol grip, and the Form 1 tax
is the same, I would advise filing a Form 1 for a SBS: more versatility.

Now, if you are buying from a Class III dealer on a Form 4, the
difference in tax might make a difference in the decision.

 

[wdlsguy]

It costs $200 to make an AOW or an SBS on a Form 1.

It costs $5 to transfer an AOW on a Form 4.

It costs $200 to transfer an SBS on a Form 4.

If your receiver ever had a shoulder stock on it, it can only be registered as an SBS.

If your receiver never had a shoulder stock on it, it can be registered as an AOW or an SBS.

Either way, don't forget to engrave your name, city and state on the receiver if you "make" an NFA firearm on a Form 1.

 

[silverlance]

bah

if you're so fired up wanting to put a 12g in a pistol ... don't let me stand near you -

aren't flare guns 12g? sure they aren't quite long enough to fit a 12g, but i'm sure that can be fixed easily

it's probably illegal, and why the heck would anyone want to fire a shotgun with a 3" barrel anyway?

the only conceivable purpose would be for assasination - type point blank shooting.

ah, that's why it's illegal.

why not just carry a flare gun? just think of it as a shotgun pistol firing an incendiary slug.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Down south "pistolized" shotguns were called "snake guns" for a
very obvious reason: they were used to against rattlesnakes.
For that purpose, .410 is more practical than 12 gauge, but
often a old, used, spare shotgun that still had some use left to
it would be chopped as a purely close quarters weapon.

Ithaca sold a double barrel 20 gauge called the Auto Burglar:
to be carried in a auto for defense against car-jackers or
kept at home for defense against burglars.

The 1934 National Firearms Act made it more difficult legally.

 

[Zundfolge]

it's probably illegal, and why the heck would anyone want to fire a shotgun with a 3" barrel anyway?

the only conceivable purpose would be for assassination - type point blank shooting.

ah, that's why it's illegal.

Dude ... put down the Koolaid.

Its illegal because prohibition was ending and the Fed.Gov didn't want to have to lay off all those Revenuers they had on the payroll. Its illegal because tyrants want more control over the people.

The primary purpose of a sawed off shotgun or shotgun pistol is self defense with an extremely powerful yet compact weapon. Assassination with on would be less efficient and more prone to failure as you have to get in close (one could argue that a scoped hunting rifle is a significantly better "assassination" tool).

Every time I hear the "...why the heck would anyone want..." line I get sick to my stomach ... its one of the mating calls of the tyrant.

 

[crunker]

The most effective assassination weapon would probably be a short sword or long knife (self-unfolding or butterfly), a suppressed, compact handgun (USP Tactical Compact would be best) or a suppressed long-range rifle.

 

[wolf_from_wv]

Yes, the flare gun you buy at the sporting goods counter at Walmart is 12G.

Why would someone want to shoot a regular 12G shell out of a plastic barrel? Never, ever, ever, ever do that.

An incendiary slug would work as long as you didn't mind the possibility of burning everthing down around you...

 

[[email protected]]

it's probably illegal, and why the heck would anyone want to fire a shotgun with a 3" barrel anyway?

Yeah thats what im thinkin

A shotgun is a shotgun is a shotgun. It's barrel length that counts, that's the thing. That's what they look at.

Um... no, sorry, a shotgun is unrifledmade with the possible intention of fireing shellsand not specialized .45 or .22 ratkillers, there are paragraphs of specification in the ATF not shotgun... duuuuh a shotgun... the shotgun kind

 

[silverlance]

whoa

I'm the last guy to say "ban that because it's not good for you".

I was deciding that the REASON why it is illegal (not my reason, just THE reason) is that there's no real good use for it other than to blow someone's guts out at PB range - and a poor one at that.

and a "shotgun pistol" is NOT by any stretch of the imagination an "extremely powerful yet compact weapon" - unless you define "powerful" as "holds a lot of powder and lead".

there is a MASSIVE difference between a saw-ed off shotgun of 10" barrel length with a stock and a <3" barrel shotgun with a PG. One is excellent at dispersing a tea saucer's sized spary of lead at close ranges, and the other is simply a large firecracker that will probably sprain your wrist and have no mechanism for quickly reloading to boot (obviously a pistol can't have a tube magazine; you might be able to make it semi-auto but i'd like to see the size of the gas pipe that won't burst).

 

[wdlsguy]

the REASON why it is illegal

Short-barreled shotguns and smoothbore handguns (AOWs) aren't illegal under federal law. You just need to file a Form 1 or Form 4 and pay a transfer tax to own one. Some states do prohibit ownership however.

 

[Zundfolge]

a "shotgun pistol" is NOT by any stretch of the imagination an "extremely powerful yet compact weapon" - unless you define "powerful" as "holds a lot of powder and lead".

I think one can prove mathematically that "holds a lot of powder and lead" = "powerful".


I guess it just bugs me when I here people in these forums using the same reasoning as the antis. Every time I hear something along the lines of "Since you don't need it, you shouldn't have it." or "Since it doesn't serve some sort of practical purpose, you must have some evil intent", I cringe (especially when it comes from fellow shooters).

I imagine SkaerE wants a shotgun pistol for the same reason I want a 911 Turbo, an MP5 or one of these; just because!

 

[toecutter]

Somewhat legalistic

There are a number of shotgun pistols that are on the market which are designed for a number of defensive purposes. I think a company called Grizzly makes a large derringer type which will take .45LC or .410 bore shells. It's designed to be for those unwanted close encounters with uppity bears in the bush.

For the most part however, a short-barreled shotgun is classified either as a destructive device, or as an AOW and require federal tax stamps to be paid. In order for a firearm to be manufactured as either one of these, it must never be sold from the manufacturer as a completed firearm. So, you must get the reciever "in the white" from the manufacturer, and then file the form 1/4 for yourself. In most cases you will need a manufacturers license to do this, and pay the taxes.

There are some manufacturers out there who do offer these things for sale as AOW's. Most notable of them is Serbu who make the "super shorty" which IIRC is a 3-shot 870 with a folding front grip, and a pistol grip on the back. It's about 10" long. It's a hoot to shoot, but you will have to do various amounts of paperwork based on your locality.