is an FID needed in an out-of-state purchase?

[EraserXIV]

Basically i live in NJ, and a FID is needed to purchase firearms. However, an FID is not needed to own a rifle if you keep it within the premise of your own home. FID is also not needed to transport a rifle or use it at a shooting range.

the NRA-ILA of the NJ laws are below, with the pertinent details in bold.

It is unlawful to knowingly possess any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a Permit to Carry, and it is unlawful to knowingly possess any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card (FID), however, no Permit to Carry or FID is required:
1. To keep or carry any firearm about a person’s place of business, residence, premises, or other land owned or possessed by him; a place of business shall be deemed a fixed location.
2. To carry any firearm unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported and the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, from one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair.
3. To transport such firearms as necessary for target practice, in the manner described in paragraph 2 above, by a member of a gun club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice in going to or from a place of target practice, provided the club has filed a copy of its charter with the Superintendent of State Police and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent.
4. To transport any firearm, in the manner described in paragraph 2 above, while traveling:
a. Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided such person has in his possession a valid hunting or fishing license.
b. Directly to or from any target range or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions.

Therefore, could i hypothetically go to PA, where an FID is not needed for a firearm purchase, purchase a rifle and drive it home to NJ and then use it to shoot at the local gun club? All without ever getting an FID?

The reason I need to do this is because it is taking FOREVER for my FID to come in and I want to jump on the boat before a ban takes effect.

 

[GRIZ22]

You need the FID to purchase the rifle in NJ so you need it to purchase a rifle outside of NJ.

 

[geekWithA.45]

I was once in that boat.

Long story short: You're pooched.

You have no legal options for obtaining arms until you get your FID.


As an NJ resident, you *can* buy an NJ legal long gun from an FFL in PA (and many other states).

That FFL will obey Federal Law, NJ law, and the laws of the state he's in.

He will inspect your FID, and have you fill out NJ paperwork, and duly file it in his records safe according to NJ law, where it will never be looked at again by anyone.

Your state holds you in contempt, as it once held me, until I removed myself from its grasp.

Welcome to the front lines.

 

[everallm]

The hitch for you is that the FFL, to ensure they keep their license, are obliged to perform due diligence in the sale.

As soon as you provide your out of state ID they need to ensure that the firearm being purchased is legal in both the state of purchase as well as the state it is going to.

The dealers in PA deal with NJ residents on a regular basis so know you need an FID. If you were buying say in Omaha, the FFL may not realize this and let it pass.

THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION TO BREAK THE LAW.

The apparent "loophole" comes in to play if for example you are an out of state competitor shooting at a match in NJ or you move to NJ from another state when you already own a long arm.

Your problem with getting a FID is a long standing problem with NJ and the only way forward is to make yourself a very polite and persistent pain in the arse. Once your statutory 30 days have passed, call once a week asking about the status of your FID.

Usually the FID takes less time than getting bloody Purchase to Permits for a handgun.........

 

[Bubba613]

The dealers in PA deal with NJ residents on a regular basis so know you need an FID. If you were buying say in Omaha, the FFL may not realize this and let it pass.

Maybe.
More likely he will do what I do and not sell to residents of states that have bizarre laws very different from our own. FWIW, the ATF distributes the "Blue Book" which lists laws for each state.
TN has a requirement for a thumbprint card. I don't see how a TN resident goes to another state and buys a long gun when the dealer there likely will not have the form.

 

[alistaire]

If I recall correctly the PA dealer will have to ship the rifle to an FFL in NJ. You can't pick it up in PA.

Solution: Move to the United States or spend you money on getting a Pro-2A person elected to the state legislature.

 

[geekWithA.45]

People, some of you are not listening.

When I was an NJ resident, I would routinely buy long guns lawfully from FFLs in PA in the manner I described, toss them into my trunk in full accordance w/ NJ law, and drive home with them.

And since we're on the topic, here's the list of exception to the general rule that you can buy long guns in another state from an FFL while observing 3 bodies of law:

Yes, some states prohibit long gun sales to out of state residents. PA isn't one of them.

Yes, there was, at one time a "contiguous state" rule concerning out of state sales, so that you could only buy out of state from the "state next door". It was repealed long ago.

Yes, some states enacted "contiguous state" rules mirroring the former federal laws. Some states repealed them, some did not. Again, PA isn't one of those states.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Yes, some states enacted "contiguous state" rules mirroring the former federal laws. Some states repealed them, some did not. Again, PA isn't one of those states.

And.... for those states that enacted laws "allowing" contiguous state purchases (such as Oklahoma), so long as those laws do not "prohibit" or "forbid" any other purchases, the "allowed" laws now also, according to BATFE allow purchase in any other state:

Aug 2004 FFL Newsletter:

CONTIGUOUS STATE – PART 2
In an article that appeared in the December 2002 edition of the FFL Newsletter, we advised FFLs that the “contiguous state” provisions of the Gun Control Act were amended in 1986, and that the GCA allows dealers to sell or dispose of a long gun to a resident of another state provided, (1) the purchaser was not otherwise prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearm under the GCA, and ( 2) the sale, delivery and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in the buyer’s and seller’s States.

The condition of sale relating to compliance with the applicable laws of both States cited above continues to cause confusion among dealers, particularly among those dealers who conduct business in a State whose laws presently contain language that allows “contiguous state” sales.

Historically, prior to the 1986 amendments to the GCA, many States enacted provisions in their laws that allowed their residents to acquire a long gun in a contiguous State. For the most part, these State law provisions were modeled after the contiguous state provisions of the GCA. However, even though the GCA was amended in 1986 to allow the sale of long guns to residents of any State pursuant to the conditions cited above, many States have not yet amended their laws to reflect similar language. ATF takes the position that if the laws of a given State allow its residents to acquire a long gun in a contiguous State, those laws also allow its residents to acquire a long gun in any other State where the laws of that State permit such transactions, unless the language contained in that State’s law expressly prohibits it residents from acquiring a firearm outside that State. Questions regarding particular State law provisions should be referred to your local ATF office.

 

[EraserXIV]

thanks guys for the responses. i guess i'll just wait for my FID. argh this is going to be a long wait.