Is anyone changing carry/training distance in light of terrorrist threats?
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a_canadian
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Sounds a bit zombie apocalypsey to me, battling your way to your rifle as the mob tries to eat your brains. Just a wild guess, but probably about a billion to one chance of such a backup weapon being relevant for any of us unless we're in proper war zone.
The only thing currently changing for me is I have scheduled myself to get some medical training for the first time in a few weeks. I plan on taking a few class and to start carrying a small IFAK on me daily in addition to my normal edc gear.
Training and practice wise with my EDC gear has not changed.
Training and practice wise with my EDC gear has not changed.
Zendude
Member
I have not changed anything yet, but it makes me think about being in a hostage situation more than i used to.
How do you fight your way to your rifle? I've always heard that line. So how do you do it? Not really on topic. Do you run under fire, spraying your handgun?
If you get to your car and it is not under fire - I have an idea - drive away.
I'll say what I always say - for a civilian - a semi (like a Glock 19 or similar from another manfacturer) and an extra mag (or two) makes a reasonable carry package. Smaller guns if dress precludes the above.
I also would recommend a statistics course to correctly interpret incidence data.
If you get to your car and it is not under fire - I have an idea - drive away.
I'll say what I always say - for a civilian - a semi (like a Glock 19 or similar from another manfacturer) and an extra mag (or two) makes a reasonable carry package. Smaller guns if dress precludes the above.
I also would recommend a statistics course to correctly interpret incidence data.
mljdeckard
Member
It's remote, but not impossible.
Sure, escape is the first and best idea. That doesn't mean it's always the end of the fight. In the Trolley Square shooting in SLC in 2007, response time was slow, because the mall is wedged between two one-way streets. There was immediate panic and gridlock. If you made it out, you would have been stuck in the parking lot, with an unknown scene going on inside. Even if you didn't want to go back inside, if the shooter decided to follow you out, would you still just want to be armed with a pistol?
I frequently seek out remote spots of desert to explore on my ATV. I have stumbled on pot grows. Most of the BIG pot grows are manned. If I did stumble onto something that someone didn't want me to see......would I just want to have my pistol?
The odds are small, but the odds of being involved in a violent encounter in the first place are also small. If it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it for a pistol, does the same logic not also apply to a rifle? Of course it is lifestyle and geography dependent. In some places it's not uncommon at all for people to have truck guns. Some of us might roll out to the desert for fun at any given moment.
Sure, escape is the first and best idea. That doesn't mean it's always the end of the fight. In the Trolley Square shooting in SLC in 2007, response time was slow, because the mall is wedged between two one-way streets. There was immediate panic and gridlock. If you made it out, you would have been stuck in the parking lot, with an unknown scene going on inside. Even if you didn't want to go back inside, if the shooter decided to follow you out, would you still just want to be armed with a pistol?
I frequently seek out remote spots of desert to explore on my ATV. I have stumbled on pot grows. Most of the BIG pot grows are manned. If I did stumble onto something that someone didn't want me to see......would I just want to have my pistol?
The odds are small, but the odds of being involved in a violent encounter in the first place are also small. If it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it for a pistol, does the same logic not also apply to a rifle? Of course it is lifestyle and geography dependent. In some places it's not uncommon at all for people to have truck guns. Some of us might roll out to the desert for fun at any given moment.
mljdeckard
Member
Just because YOU can't imagine it in YOUR circumstances, doesn't mean it doesn't work in other people's circumstances.
Clark
Member
After 9-11 some software engineer in Maryland wrote me that he cannot carry a gun in his vehicle, so he is ready to run over terrorists with the car.
The seemed odd to me.
I thought if there were terrorists, I would stay home.
The seemed odd to me.
I thought if there were terrorists, I would stay home.
chipcom
member
No change here. I don't let irrational fears or manufactured bogey men change how I live my life or change my delicate balance of preparedness versus enjoying life. Doing so would only give "them" what they want.
Corpral_Agarn
Member
Well this San Bernardino shooting is waking people up here in CA.
I think for many folks with CCW's they are making a point to actually carry and some people I have talked too are more interested in practice and training on a more regular basis... or at all.
Lots more have talked/emailed me about getting their CCW.
"fighting your way to your rifle" is not really an option for most of us. Whatever happens is probably going to happen way before you can get to your rifle. Once you have the rifle, returning to re-engage is seldom recommended by LE responders.
I carry what I believe will do the job. Just like we cannot rely on police to be there, if it isn't on my body, I don't think of it as an option.
I think for many folks with CCW's they are making a point to actually carry and some people I have talked too are more interested in practice and training on a more regular basis... or at all.
Lots more have talked/emailed me about getting their CCW.
"fighting your way to your rifle" is not really an option for most of us. Whatever happens is probably going to happen way before you can get to your rifle. Once you have the rifle, returning to re-engage is seldom recommended by LE responders.
I carry what I believe will do the job. Just like we cannot rely on police to be there, if it isn't on my body, I don't think of it as an option.
robmkivseries70
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This might be appropriate in a strategic sense, borrowed from "Farnam's Quips" of 14 September 2015
“There are some things which you cannot imagine, but there is nothing that may not happen!”
CIA Axiom
“There are some things which you cannot imagine, but there is nothing that may not happen!”
CIA Axiom
Clark
Member
Keeping my soft target right here in this chair.
WestKentucky
Member
It's winter, I'm back to 9mm. 18 in, 17 in second mag. Nothing changed other than what clothes I wear which changes what I can conceal.
R.W.Dale
Member
I have recently reevaluated my equipment but not just because of active shooter incident but as an overall maturing of my ccw habits.
I have decided that a revolver may not best suit my situation not only because of limited capacity but weight as well.
I've decided that accurate aimed fire is important in certain situations and a revolver with sights unfortunately tends to be a heavy gun.
I've also realized that it's not my job to save the day. If I can I will, but if if I can shoot n scoot in the face of overwhelming firepower I will take that option too. As such I'm coming around to the belief that more ammo is better and merely shooting back is of value in of itself.
So I moved from a revolver to a 8+1 45acp. I literally just purchased a pmr30 if it proves reliable I will consider it as a primary as it will add some much needed lightness while still maintaining accuracy as well as offer the possibility of an unmatched (in a handgun) volume of suppressive fire for me to hit the bricks of need be.
As to the notion of "going back in" nope not gonna happen. Everyone else had the chance to attain the same level of preparedness I did. It may sound callous but it's not my problem if they didn't
ETA I didn't think I lived anywhere near where anything like that would happen. Till the day a nutcase showed up at the small Arkansas courthouse where my dad works and shot the place all to hell (nobody killed amazingly)
I have decided that a revolver may not best suit my situation not only because of limited capacity but weight as well.
I've decided that accurate aimed fire is important in certain situations and a revolver with sights unfortunately tends to be a heavy gun.
I've also realized that it's not my job to save the day. If I can I will, but if if I can shoot n scoot in the face of overwhelming firepower I will take that option too. As such I'm coming around to the belief that more ammo is better and merely shooting back is of value in of itself.
So I moved from a revolver to a 8+1 45acp. I literally just purchased a pmr30 if it proves reliable I will consider it as a primary as it will add some much needed lightness while still maintaining accuracy as well as offer the possibility of an unmatched (in a handgun) volume of suppressive fire for me to hit the bricks of need be.
As to the notion of "going back in" nope not gonna happen. Everyone else had the chance to attain the same level of preparedness I did. It may sound callous but it's not my problem if they didn't
ETA I didn't think I lived anywhere near where anything like that would happen. Till the day a nutcase showed up at the small Arkansas courthouse where my dad works and shot the place all to hell (nobody killed amazingly)
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Absolutely not.
I am going about living my life, 100% normal as always. I always have exercised good situational awareness, and carried a prudent amount of ammo and a back-up handgun. I refuse to give-in to fear, and allow my world to be turned into paranoid central.
Geno
I am going about living my life, 100% normal as always. I always have exercised good situational awareness, and carried a prudent amount of ammo and a back-up handgun. I refuse to give-in to fear, and allow my world to be turned into paranoid central.
Geno
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
No. But I have upped my ADEE talking point to newbies to add F, fight to win if ADEE fails.
R.W.Dale
Member
jimbo555
Member
Switched from a Kahr pm9 to a Glock 26 and a Glock 19 mag for a reload.
riceboy72
Member
No change in my daily carry habits, nor where I go or how I live life. If anything, I'm trying to encourage a friend who now owns a training company to incorporate a "tactical first aid" course to his line up, sharing his knowledge and experience of 25 years in the EMS field. If and when he does, I'll be there to learn as much as I can.
george29
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I don't go to malls, theaters or school. So my revolver is still good enough. San Bernadino shooting was two home trained terrorists, same as two perps. I think we need to rethink COM and aim for the pelvis. A good pelvic shot is as good as COM and you know there's no body armor there.
I would challenge you to re-think that. The pelvis is shaped like a plate. Ever walk on a metal plate full of holes to make it lighter? Still holds your weight. A fat, slow, handgun bullet is likely just to make a hole through the pelvis, not fracture it (this is according to an ER doc's experience, wish I still had the source link). Not to mention, most people don't even know where to aim. Even if you hit the pelvis, and if they drop, they are still an armed threat that you have to deal with.
COM isn't where you should aim either (pet peeve, everyone says "COM"). You should be aiming center chest which would be the center of the sternum where the heart is (slightly offset to the left, but a center sternum hit, hits the heart). A good reference area would be to draw a line between the nipples and make a triangle with the point at the base of the throat.
Center of Mass of the torso from the belt to the throat would be a little lower than the solar plexus area below the heart. Great place to aim as a soldier at typical combat ranges to help assure a hit...somewhere. Poor place to aim at the average domestic gunfight distance of 21ft and under.
If a few rounds center chest don't do it, switch to the head, specifically the mid-brain/brain stem area. Aim point is roughly the triangle made from the eyes down to a point at the top of the upper lip.
Training for a maybe hip-shot that doesn't even end the threat just because in .00000001% of the time they may have armor on doesn't make sense to me. If you see the armor, go for the head. Not to mention, taking rounds in armor is brutal, knocks the wind out and routinely breaks ribs etc. Impacting their chest with armor can still give you the 1 second transition time you need to make the head shot before they can recover from the impacts.
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