Rev. DeadCorpse
Member
It's gotta get done some time. It isn't going to be any easier tomorrow than it is today.
Is carrying a loaded firearm legal?
- Thread starter WickedXD
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It's gotta get done some time. It isn't going to be any easier tomorrow than it is today.
Zundfolge
Member
Rev. DeadCorpse, go re-read my post (#13).
We're talking about Kansas here ... and while in terms of Constitutional Theory you are 110% right I must remind you that we're talking about Kansas here!
I swear that left to its own devices, Kansas would become a Socialist Theocracy (and police state) in short order.
We're talking about Kansas here ... and while in terms of Constitutional Theory you are 110% right I must remind you that we're talking about Kansas here!
I swear that left to its own devices, Kansas would become a Socialist Theocracy (and police state) in short order.
Would be nice if it would happen, but I'm not willing to risk my liberty, meager savings and future RKBA to fight it ... and I would have a hard time asking someone else to do so as well.
Jorg Nysgerrig
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Rev. DeadCorpse said:
In that case, why don't you go carry a loaded gun in Wichita, get arrested, and take the fight to them. Make sure you have deep pockets, know some good lawyers, and can afford to take the time to do it.
Rev. DeadCorpse
Member
Ah yes... And here we have the crux of the biscuit. No one wants to be the first to charge into enemy lines. In the meantime, the rest of what makes this country great gets flushed... :banghead:
ETA: BTW, the next time I go anywhere near Kansas, I'll be travelling up I-35 on my way back to Minnesota. Moving back for family reasons.
Rev. DeadCorpse
Member
Because, and I include myself in this, we are a bunch of sniveling wimps who think we have too much to lose to attempt to fight for our Rights.
Wife. Two kids. Mortgage. Saving for retirement.
Not exactly the kind of profile that allows for heroic actions unless any of the above is directly threatened. Of course, by then... it's too late isn't it...
Zundfolge
Member
True. Not many who are willing charge the machine gun nest with a grenade in their hands.
I can't call anyone a coward for not standing up by being arrested, as I'm not willing to either (mostly because I know that I'd lose ... thats the real problem ... once someone does have the balls to stand up and fight for the original intent of the 2A they will likely be destroyed and whats left of the 2A with them
).Jorg Nysgerrig
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It's true, you may not have to get arrested. You could try with lawyers and money. I don't have an excess of either, however.
carnaby
Member
a possible way to approach the laws would be to carry a harmless pistol frame or AR lower receiver, the part that is legally the gun, say in DC. Put it in a holster or on a sling and walk around. If you were inclined to charge the machine gun nest, that's the way I'd do it.
Rotorflyr
Member
To bring this thread back on topic
Wicked,
Go for it, but try not to act surprised when you get arrested.
You also realize that the Leo's won't assume your a Leo, and even if they can't get you on a carry charge, they'll get you on other charges, such as inciting, or public nuscence.
Do yourslef (and all the other pro 2a folk) a favor, get your CCW and use it, then loby for changes to the laws that you don't like.
WickedXD said:
Wicked,
Go for it, but try not to act surprised when you get arrested.
You also realize that the Leo's won't assume your a Leo, and even if they can't get you on a carry charge, they'll get you on other charges, such as inciting, or public nuscence.
Do yourslef (and all the other pro 2a folk) a favor, get your CCW and use it, then loby for changes to the laws that you don't like.
280PLUS
Member
And while you're at it try a few Tueller drills and THEN tell me you can load and fire accurately in under 2 seconds. You may be in for a rude awakening.
280PLUS
Member
For your reading pleasure:
by Dennis Tueller
The "good guy" with the gun against the "bad guy" with the knife (or machete, axe, club, tire-iron, etc.). "No contest", you say. "The man with the gun can't lose." Or can he? A great deal depends on his ability with that gun and the proximity of his opponent.
If, for example, our hero shoots his would-be attacker at a distance of 20 yards, he loses. Not the fight, you understand, but most probably his freedom because he will almost certainly be charged with murder. The only thing that justifies your shooting another human being is the immediate need to stop him from trying to kill you (or someone else), remember?
If, on the other hand, our hero waits to fire until his attacker is within obvious striking distance, he may still lose. His shots may not stop his attacker instantly enough to keep him from using his knife.
So, what is the answer - just how close is too close?
Consider this. How long does it take for you to draw your handgun and place two center hits on a man-size target at seven yards? Those of us who have learned and practiced proper pistolcraft techniques would say that a time of about one and one-half seconds is acceptable for that drill.
With that in mind, let's consider what might be called the "Danger Zone" if you are confronted by an adversary armed with an edged or blunt weapon. At what distance does this adversary enter your Danger Zone and become a lethal threat to you?
We have done some testing along those lines recently and have found that an average healthy adult male can cover the traditional seven yard distance in a time of (you guessed it) about one and one-half seconds. It would be safe to say then that an armed attacker at 21 feet is well within your Danger Zone.
As the photo series illustrates, even if your draw and shots are perfect, you are cutting things awfully close (no pun intended). And even if your shots do take the wind out of his sails, his forward momentum may carry him right over the top of you, unless, of course, you manage to get out of his way. And if you are confronted with more than one assailant, things really get tricky. So what's a pistol-packing person to do?
Having analyzed the problem, the following suggestions come to mind: First, develop and maintain a healthy level of tactical alertness. If you spot the danger signs early enough, you can probably avoid the confrontation altogether. A tactical withdrawal (I hesitate to use the word "retreat") may be your best bet, unless you're anxious to get involved in a shooting and the consequent legal hassles which are sure to follow.
Next, if your "Early Warning System" tells you that a possible lethal confrontation is imminent, you want to place yourself in the best tactical position available. You should move to cover (if there is any close at hand), draw your weapon, and start to plan your next move.
Why use cover, you may wonder, if your attacker is using only a knife? Because you want to make it hard for him to get to you. Anything between you and your attacker (trash cans, vehicles, furniture, etc.) that slows him down buys you more time to make the appropriate decisions, and, if it becomes necessary, more time to place your shots.
I suggest you draw your weapon as soon as the danger clearly exists. There is no point in waiting until the last possible second to play "Quick-Draw McGraw" if you recognize the threat early on. Also, the sight of your "Equalizer" may be sufficient to terminate the action then and there.
The purpose of the pistol is to stop fights, and whether it does so by dropping a thug in his tracks, or by causing him to turn tail and run, your goal is accomplished, is it not?
At this point it might be advisable to issue a verbal challenge such as, "Stop"', "Don't move", or "Drop your weapon!" It may work, and even if it doesn't you'll be developing your legal case for self-defense by showing that you did everything you could to prevent a shooting. If all goes according to plan, the odds are that by now you will no longer have a problem, your attacker having remembered he had a more pressing engagement elsewhere.
But, as we all know, things seldom go according to plan and the ideal circumstances previously described are probably not the norm. For example, if this goon tries to throw his knife (or other weapon) at you, what do you do then?
Realistically, knife-throwing is something of a gallery trick requiring specially balanced knives and a pre-measured distance to the target. Suffice it to say, however, that if your attacker is within effective throwing range he will almost surely have encroached into your Danger Zone. This throwing business does create something of a timing problem, for, if you fire after he has thrown his weapon, you may have difficulty convincing a jury that you fired in self-defense since technically you were not in jeopardy if your former attacker is no longer in possession of a deadly weapon. Something to consider, and just one more reason to use cover if it is available and time permits.
Sometime, of course, despite your best efforts, you could find you are suddenly, at close quarters, the intended victim of some lunatic slasher. If you are an expert in one of the many martial arts, you may opt to go at it hand-to-hand, and if you are in this category you do not need advice from me on how to do it. So, we'll get back to the use of the handgun for solving the problem. What it all comes down to now is your ability to smoothly and quickly draw your pistol and hit your adversary, and do it all reflexively. And the only way to develop these reflexes is through consistent, repetitive practice, practice, practice.
Practice so the right move comes automatically.
One thing you should practice, with this kind of encounter in mind, is the step-back technique in which you take a long step to the rear as you draw. This puts another three to four feet between you and your attacker, which may be just enough to make the difference.
Remember, the greater your skill with your weapon, the smaller your Danger Zone will be, but only if that skill is coupled with good mental conditioning, tactical planning and alertness, because no amount of skill will do you any good unless you know that you're in trouble.
Skill at arms and proper mental attitude. that's the combination that will make you the winner in a "Close Encounter of the Cutting Kind".
by Dennis Tueller
The "good guy" with the gun against the "bad guy" with the knife (or machete, axe, club, tire-iron, etc.). "No contest", you say. "The man with the gun can't lose." Or can he? A great deal depends on his ability with that gun and the proximity of his opponent.
If, for example, our hero shoots his would-be attacker at a distance of 20 yards, he loses. Not the fight, you understand, but most probably his freedom because he will almost certainly be charged with murder. The only thing that justifies your shooting another human being is the immediate need to stop him from trying to kill you (or someone else), remember?
If, on the other hand, our hero waits to fire until his attacker is within obvious striking distance, he may still lose. His shots may not stop his attacker instantly enough to keep him from using his knife.
So, what is the answer - just how close is too close?
Consider this. How long does it take for you to draw your handgun and place two center hits on a man-size target at seven yards? Those of us who have learned and practiced proper pistolcraft techniques would say that a time of about one and one-half seconds is acceptable for that drill.
With that in mind, let's consider what might be called the "Danger Zone" if you are confronted by an adversary armed with an edged or blunt weapon. At what distance does this adversary enter your Danger Zone and become a lethal threat to you?
We have done some testing along those lines recently and have found that an average healthy adult male can cover the traditional seven yard distance in a time of (you guessed it) about one and one-half seconds. It would be safe to say then that an armed attacker at 21 feet is well within your Danger Zone.
As the photo series illustrates, even if your draw and shots are perfect, you are cutting things awfully close (no pun intended). And even if your shots do take the wind out of his sails, his forward momentum may carry him right over the top of you, unless, of course, you manage to get out of his way. And if you are confronted with more than one assailant, things really get tricky. So what's a pistol-packing person to do?
Having analyzed the problem, the following suggestions come to mind: First, develop and maintain a healthy level of tactical alertness. If you spot the danger signs early enough, you can probably avoid the confrontation altogether. A tactical withdrawal (I hesitate to use the word "retreat") may be your best bet, unless you're anxious to get involved in a shooting and the consequent legal hassles which are sure to follow.
Next, if your "Early Warning System" tells you that a possible lethal confrontation is imminent, you want to place yourself in the best tactical position available. You should move to cover (if there is any close at hand), draw your weapon, and start to plan your next move.
Why use cover, you may wonder, if your attacker is using only a knife? Because you want to make it hard for him to get to you. Anything between you and your attacker (trash cans, vehicles, furniture, etc.) that slows him down buys you more time to make the appropriate decisions, and, if it becomes necessary, more time to place your shots.
I suggest you draw your weapon as soon as the danger clearly exists. There is no point in waiting until the last possible second to play "Quick-Draw McGraw" if you recognize the threat early on. Also, the sight of your "Equalizer" may be sufficient to terminate the action then and there.
The purpose of the pistol is to stop fights, and whether it does so by dropping a thug in his tracks, or by causing him to turn tail and run, your goal is accomplished, is it not?
At this point it might be advisable to issue a verbal challenge such as, "Stop"', "Don't move", or "Drop your weapon!" It may work, and even if it doesn't you'll be developing your legal case for self-defense by showing that you did everything you could to prevent a shooting. If all goes according to plan, the odds are that by now you will no longer have a problem, your attacker having remembered he had a more pressing engagement elsewhere.
But, as we all know, things seldom go according to plan and the ideal circumstances previously described are probably not the norm. For example, if this goon tries to throw his knife (or other weapon) at you, what do you do then?
Realistically, knife-throwing is something of a gallery trick requiring specially balanced knives and a pre-measured distance to the target. Suffice it to say, however, that if your attacker is within effective throwing range he will almost surely have encroached into your Danger Zone. This throwing business does create something of a timing problem, for, if you fire after he has thrown his weapon, you may have difficulty convincing a jury that you fired in self-defense since technically you were not in jeopardy if your former attacker is no longer in possession of a deadly weapon. Something to consider, and just one more reason to use cover if it is available and time permits.
Sometime, of course, despite your best efforts, you could find you are suddenly, at close quarters, the intended victim of some lunatic slasher. If you are an expert in one of the many martial arts, you may opt to go at it hand-to-hand, and if you are in this category you do not need advice from me on how to do it. So, we'll get back to the use of the handgun for solving the problem. What it all comes down to now is your ability to smoothly and quickly draw your pistol and hit your adversary, and do it all reflexively. And the only way to develop these reflexes is through consistent, repetitive practice, practice, practice.
Practice so the right move comes automatically.
One thing you should practice, with this kind of encounter in mind, is the step-back technique in which you take a long step to the rear as you draw. This puts another three to four feet between you and your attacker, which may be just enough to make the difference.
Remember, the greater your skill with your weapon, the smaller your Danger Zone will be, but only if that skill is coupled with good mental conditioning, tactical planning and alertness, because no amount of skill will do you any good unless you know that you're in trouble.
Skill at arms and proper mental attitude. that's the combination that will make you the winner in a "Close Encounter of the Cutting Kind".
You may want to tell that to the families of the numerous LEOs who have been killed after having their guns taken away and used against them. Also, out-of-uniform LEOs rarely open carry.
It's faster to draw from an exposed holster, and if opportunistic criminals are around, they'll probably be deterred. If determined criminals are up to something, though, you're going to be in serious trouble; they still have the advantage of surprise, and their first act is going to be to neutralize you.
You do what you want, but that's why I will never open carry.
In public, in an urban environment? Why would you think for a moment that that's legal? It's certainly not remotely reasonable.
You seem like you haven't thought this through very well, and that's why you're getting a lot of concerned responses.
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