Crunker1337
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Reading about people who are curious about making/owning SAMs kind of puts the whole machinegun thing in perspective.
Is it legal to own a SAM or MANPADS (surface to air missiles) in the United States?
- Thread starter jlbraun
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Wow. So in this type of thing, the US's jurisdiction is "the whole world".
Thanks Librarian.
And that's the point, to put it in perspective. Given that's it's an outright prohibition on ownership of an arm, think it falls under 922(o) and is threatened by Heller?
UHHH 
comon there is no way that owning something like that is legal. 
I don't know what law says so but I'm SURE there is more then one.
They just don't let civilians own things that are made to go flying off into the air and then blow up!! :banghead: And for good reason.
comon there is no way that owning something like that is legal. I don't know what law says so but I'm SURE there is more then one.
They just don't let civilians own things that are made to go flying off into the air and then blow up!! :banghead: And for good reason.
Gunnerpalace
Member
(3) Excluded conduct.— This subsection does not apply with respect to—
(A) conduct by or under the authority of the United States or any department or agency thereof or of a State or any department or agency thereof; or
(B) conduct pursuant to the terms of a contract with the United States or any department or agency thereof or with a State or any department or agency thereof.
Doesnt that mean the ATF and the NFA/DD tax?
(A) conduct by or under the authority of the United States or any department or agency thereof or of a State or any department or agency thereof; or
(B) conduct pursuant to the terms of a contract with the United States or any department or agency thereof or with a State or any department or agency thereof.
Doesnt that mean the ATF and the NFA/DD tax?
Gunnerpalace
Member
Ohhhhh.Thanks Kharn.
ServiceSoon
Member
As far as I know you can make a pipe bomb and register it as a destructive device.
Good point! Baby steps people...
I would agree with Kharn's assessment. It just doesn't seem right that the government forbids something but gives themselves permission to do it. Where is the check and balance in that equation?
Good point! Baby steps people...
I would agree with Kharn's assessment. It just doesn't seem right that the government forbids something but gives themselves permission to do it. Where is the check and balance in that equation?
Librarian
Member
That also allows Hughes and other military armaments manufacturers to design, build and test the things - illegal without that exception - and allows the Army to practice fire them and to use them in combat. It allows the FedGov to sell them out of the country - Stingers for Afghanistan, anyone?
Roccobro
Member
I wonder how those 8yo kids at 4th of July got their thingies that shoot up in the sky and make a huge explosion.
They must have shown good cause to possess one and got the Cleo to sign off with all their fingerprints and mugshots and taxes paid....Come on people! Who needs a gun in this civilized world anyways?
Civilians and their needs.... sheesh.
Justin
FieroCDSP
Member
Assuming for the moment that it were legal to tax stamp the launcher as a DD, would you have to stamp each rocket as a DD also?
I bet the USSS and ATF are climbing all over the NSA to record this thread.
I bet the USSS and ATF are climbing all over the NSA to record this thread.
Yes, if the rocket has a propelling charge of over four ounces and/or a bursting charge of over one quarter of an ounce.
Also, Librarian, last I checked, non-guided rockets are perfectly legal to own, as are the launchers. To the original question, your answer is correct. To those who find the actual text of law confusing, I simply wished to clear it up.
By the way, I can prove that a man-portable rocket (not guided missle) launcher is legal in a month or two. I love NFA tax stamps.
yesit'sloaded
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I have some other engineer friends that are aerospace engineers and into BIG model rockets. All I know about restrictions is that they have to call the FAA and ask them if it is ok to launch at a certain place and time so they don't accidentally take out an airplane.
Gunnerpalace
Member
That would have been a sight during "killdozer" cops cant stop it and a civie with a RPG stops him.
yesit'sloaded
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Speaking of killdozer. I guess armored vehicles have no restrictions as long as they don't go on public roads?
John Gault
Member
Yes. I was once the desk in the Pentagon that reviewed whether certain technology could be released to foriegn national governments. Oddly, many of those requests were from US civilians. It makes a certain kind of odd sense to have the same guy in on the whole picture.
Exactly. Remember, though, that the activity described is occuring on protected, largely vacant land. Like a desert. That is the opposite of our suburban backyard.
Smurfslayer
Member
Let's not forget that originally your militia responsibilities may not have been regular infantry. It could just as easily have been artillery.
Hawk
Member
Justin said:
Perhaps this?
http://www.nar.org/cabinet/waiverinst.html
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_04/14cfr101_04.html
The applicabliity section for unmanned rockets kicks in right about where the Estes hobby shop stuff stops and Aerotech "G" starts. Well south of any servicable SAM at any rate.
Also, does not address ownership, only operation. Not sure if that's what the previous poster was alluding to.
Since Chuck Schumer's and Lautenberg's post-9/11 grandstanding most of the impact to sport rocketry has come from the BATFE "revised readings" on propellant grain storage and shipment. FAA flight waivers were harder to come by for a time.
Things got tortured enough I quit the hobby. Admittedly, paying more attention to firearms and less to sport rocketry didn't save me any money, but a couple observations are in order:
1. Note the names Schumer and Lautenberg. I guess that pair constitutes "the usual suspects" in more than one area of endeavor.
2. If you check how much black powder can be stored by a hobby rocket enthusiast vs a muzzleloader user, it becomes immediately obvious that the NRA is a stronger lobbying group than the NAR.
3. Given the pain and agony associated with flight waivers, motor regulations, the observation that a LEUP (low explosives users permit) is an order of magnitude more difficult to arrange than an 03 FFL, the requirement for a class 4 magazine, etc. The liklihood of a legal SAM seems unlikely in the extreme.
The "E" part of BATFE will pick your bones dry before the "F" part ever gets around to nibbling on the scraps. The FAA will have all it can do just to get a place at the table.
I've actually wondered about rockets and grenades. I mean, do you have to get a tax stamp for the launcher AND eachgrenade/rocket?
What about artillery and cartridges for weapons shooting larger than 20mm (it was 20mm that is the max without permits right?)...
What about artillery and cartridges for weapons shooting larger than 20mm (it was 20mm that is the max without permits right?)...
Gunnerpalace
Member
You bet $200 tax PER grenade,rocket.
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