Is Military Anti-Gun?

[RustyShackelford]

active duty firearms related information...

While I was on active duty in CONUS(FT Lee Virginia-91/93:military police) we had a MP/E-9 SGT Major who as post SGT Major set up a free shooting range for use of "private weapons". I never used it myself but would have if I had firearms/time.

Really I think this E-9 just wanted a safe/free place to bust caps, .

I'd hope more active duty US military NCOs/commissioned officers would be so "enlighted".

Rusty S

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

Years ago I read an idea that I think is very applicable to the military even today. We need two versions of the military, one for peacetime made up of polite pencil pushers and PR types and one for wartime the mean sob go to it guys like Patton and such. Ever notice how some of the most decorated soldiers in combat are also the scewups when it comes to rules and regulations in the military. As far as fights between soldiers historically untill WWII officers stayed stayed out of them and let them solve their differences between themselves. If somebody got killed then the other party got charged.

 

[thumper723]

Gaucho is on to something. Nowadays, officer promotions, and enlisted in the senior ranks are more on how they look on paper, over how good of a warfighter or skill within their specialty.

Not to be contrary to good order and discipline, but, who would you rather have with you when the crap hits the fan?

1- The guy who always has every reg memorized, never has been in any trouble, but can hardly qualify with his weapon, and is not very "aggressive".

2- The guy who has been in a little trouble (I'm talking MINOR stuff, maybe a barfight in port, not trying to frag a superior), is an expert with his weapon or equipment, and has the "warrior mindset". Not the written on paper to be memorized ethos memorized, but the real-deal.

Guy #1 is far more likely to be promoted, as long as he has the minimum required competency in his job.

Guy #2 is who I would want as my door gunner or wingman. (or on my fire team, etc)

Just my $.02

 

[Mortech]

Weapons training in the active duty does suck , while stationed in Weisbaden AB 85'-88' I may have touched my asigned weapon TWICE . Since I was the airfields primary NAVAIDS tech I never went to the field . During qualifications I would just show up at the range and use a friends weapon shot qualifiy (perfect score every time ) . The reason I could do this was because I grew up with guns and was taught by my grandfather (a WW2 first wave Omaha beach survivor ) Most military members at that time I wouldn't trust with a broken slingshot . And believe me the military looked at it the same way , for example during the Libyian bombing crisis I can remember being on guard duty on the runway with my M16 (borrowed from the pervious unit member who was on duty before me) with a empty magazine . Of course I have a loaded one in my BDU pants cargo pocket (seems the local Rod n Gun had a run on all of its 223Rem ammo the week before ) Now on the other hand I was IRR 88'-93' in Germany training was plentiful . The people who were also IRR members were VERY progun knowledgable and most of us had or own AR15s or used Ruger Mini-14s .

 

[nemoaz]

Just finished reading an article concerning a proposal to remove Napoleonic military drill from all mliitary training. I had never thought about it before, but the average soldier, sailor or (especially) Marine spends weeks and weeks learning to march. Think if that time was spent on hand to hand and basic combat skills instead. Is there really a drastic need for marching and passes in review?

 

[thumper723]

That is more done as a discipline building exercise now. As to it's practical purpose, not so much.

But, learning what a "prepatory command" and a "command of execution" are is important.

 

[mljdeckard]

Without reading the whole thread,

Soldiers must be baby-sat. When a commander is responsible for all the actions of 18-year-old beer drinking beavises and buttheads, It doesn't matter if 999 of them are normal, the final one is a moron who will mix gunpowder with budweiser. Therefore, soldiers never get the benefit of the doubt, and are never allowed to handle their own weapons as free men are. This subsequently engenders a culture of complacency and carelessness, because soldiers are never expected to actually handle hot weapons. They the get deployed to a war, and start blowing toes off. We are trusted to keep and bear arms, soldiers aren't. They are there to preserve democracy, not practice it.

Weapons training takes time and money. Every time an armorer lets a weapon out of the arms room, he has to insist that the operator maintains it correctly. If he doesn't, it means more scrubbing and paperwork for him. Letting weapons go out becomes an all day project, especially if it's more than one.

I didn't even qualify with a rifle in basic. I was an armor crewman, and our primary weapons are pistols. When I got to Germany, I asked my sergeant when I would have time to practice, and he rolled his eyes at me. Like, that really isn't important in the work we do here.