Military and Guns; or I'm gonna join up and serve! (long)

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winstonsmith

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I've decided to join the military once I get out of high school, for many reasons. It will help me build discipline, give me a solid base of varied experience for the rest of life, and also give me a solid financial base (saved money plus college grants and such). I think I'm going to serve the army, and aim for a more elite group such as airborne or rangers. I don't want to make a career out of it now, maybe that will change once I go in. I have a few questions.

1) How is the length of your stay in the military determined?

2) Exactly how do college grants work?

3) How much firearm training will I get in boot? (Anti parents=no guns for Jack)

4) If you had to give one peice of advice to a incoming army man, what would it be?

5) Is there anything I can do RIGHT NOW to make my military life easier? (Running in boots, training with airsoft for example)

6) I understand the standard service weapons are an M9 beretta, and an m16 service rifle. Are you issued both of those at once and keep them for the rest of your military life? Or do you turn in your arms every deployment? Are you allowed to carry off base? How does range time work? Do you have to buy your own ammo? Are you allowed to have/use your own firearms?

I'm one of those people that feel a deep gratitude whenever I pass a military cemetary. I want to uphold and defend our constitution, and if need be spill my blood for the tree of liberty.

Now maybe thats just my teenage boy/man hormones inducing me to act artifically manly. But this seems to be a long time fascination of mine (serving the country). So I'm gonna go for it.

-Jack
 
Off base you can carry according to state law reguarding open/CCW carry but that is seperate from your military service.

No you can not carry your personaly owned weapon on duty/on base. There is no provision for CCW on a Military facility.
 
1) How is the length of your stay in the military determined? that's between you and your recuiter

2) Exactly how do college grants work? Don't know I did the GI bill and they took 1200 from me the first year and I got about 500 a month to go to school for 36 months

3) How much firearm training will I get in boot? (Anti parents=no guns for Jack) Basic rifle, mybe crew served, don't know was a Marine

4) If you had to give one peice of advice to a incoming army man, what would it be? Army Grunts either ride a little walk a lot, or fall out of airplanes and then walk a lot. If you want to be a grunt make sure that you know what you are getting into.

5) Is there anything I can do RIGHT NOW to make my military life easier? (Running in boots, training with airsoft for example) Run your A$$ off, as much as you can as long as you can

.02
 
1) How is length of enlistment determined?
A) The length of your enlistment is based on the MOS (job) you opt for, training options, enlistment bonuses, and other elistment guarantees you sign up for, including, but not limited to station of choice, or Army College Fund. What happens is you sign for an eight year obligation. Part of that will be active duty and the remainder can either National Guard, Enlised Reserves, or Individual Ready Reserves. Or, you can reenlist and continue to serve on active duty.

2) How do college grants work?
A) The Army doesn't call them 'grants' per se, but they do have several options for funding your higher education. There is always the Montgomery GI Bill, in which you contribute $1200, $100/month for 12 months; and the Army reimburses you up to $985/month for up to 36 months of school. The actual amount you get depends on whether or not you are enrolled full time. You can also contribute an additional $600 and recieve up to an extra $150/month. This also depends on your enrollment satus in school. Also, the Army has the Army College Fund, where in lieu of a cash bonus, you recieve up to $50,000 for school. Whether or not you can qualify for this depends on your ASVAB test scores. The higher the score, the more options you qualify for. The Army also has the EArmyU program. Under this program, soldiers recieve a Compaq laptop, printer, internet access, tuition, and books, all paid for by the Army. All you have to do is complete 12 semester hours of school within two years. If you do, you keep the computer. If you don't, you still get to keep the computer, but the Army takes back the money they spent on all of it, currently at the rate of $250/month for 12 months. Twelve semester hours isn't much, but when you're constantly in the field, it can become a daunting task. Also, if you want to take some other classes at the local education center on your post, you can get Tuition Assistance, where you only have to pay a small portion of the tuition cost and buy the books.

3) How much firearms training will I get in boot?
A) First off, the Army calls it Basic Combat Training, or Basic, the Marines call it boot. The amount of firearms training you'll recieve will vary depending on what MOS you are going to be trained as. The companies made up of non-combat arms trainees don't as a rule, spend as much time training with their weapons as say an Infantry company. If you opt for Infantry, you will spend A LOT of time getting to know your new girlfriend. You will undergo BRM, Basic Rifle Marksmanship, and ARM, Advanced Rifle Marksmanship (which is training to shoot moving targets). You will also learn to shoot while wearing a Chemical Protective Suit. You will also recieve familiarization training on the M203, M249 SAW, M240G MG, and M136(AT4) rocket launcher. As an enlisted Infantryman, you can count on recieving NO training on the M9 pistol, unless you are assigned as a gunner on a machinegun team at your duty station. MP's will obviously qualify on the M9, as well as the shotgun.

4) If you could give one piece of advice, what would it be?
A) Use your head at all times. - Don't get caught up in doing stupid stuff simply because your buddies are doing it. Don't allow yourself to get into debt. Don't run your mouth when you should be listening. Always be thinking about what it will take to get your next promotion. Take some correspondence courses, go to the unit Soldier of the Month competitions. Attend as many schools as you can, whether it's Airborne school, Air Assault School, Ranger School, Combat Lifesaver training, or Field Sanitation and Safety class.

5) Is there anything I can do to make military life easier?
A) Do your homework. Don't take the ASVAB test too lightly. A good score on it can affect your career more than you can imagine. Stay out of any kind of trouble with the law. As for exercise, do push-ups, sit-ups, crunches, pull-ups, and other aerobic exercises. Run, but not with boots. You are much better off buying good running shoes, as they will give your ankles the proper support and lessen the impact on your feet, legs and back. Buy a good backpack, such as an Army surplus rucksack, and load it with about 30-40 lbs of stuff and start walking while wearing it. Start out with short distances, such as 1 or 2 miles, then work your way up slowly, until you can do at least 12 miles. You should strive to be able to do those 12 miles in less than 3 hours.

6) Military weapons/CCW
A) Your weapons are owned by the unit, and are assigned to you for the time you are in that unit. They must remain stored in the unit arms room, in accordance with Army Regulations. You are issued them as needed, and only for official duties. You can not take your weapon to the range on personal time. The Army will provide you with ammo, although it never seems like there is enough. You can not transport a military-owned weapon in a privately owned vehicle. You are allowed to own your own weapons, as long as they are legal in the state you are stationed in. If you live in the barracks, they must be stored in the arms room or off-post, if your commander allows, or doesn't know they exist. You may not CCW on a Federal Installation. If you are caught with aweapon in the barracks you can count on a world of hurt unlike any you have ever known. Your unit commander can punish you in ways that will make your parents look like amatuers. The only soldiers who, by Army regs, are allowed to carry privately owned weapons into combat are General Officers.

If you have any other questions that I can help you with, feel free to PM me.

Frank

P.S. As for bleeding for the country, I fully recommend you read a poem entitled "Dolce et Decorum est Pro Patria Mori". GEN Patton said it best when he said that the object is not to die for your country, it's to make that other poor bastard die for his. (My apologies to Art's grammaw. I'm sure she can forgive Ol' Blood and Guts for his language.) If you die, you've failed, it's as simple as that. You can no longer cover your buddies as they continue the fight. For every soldier lost, it's that much tougher to fight the enemy. I'm not saying that those who have lost their lives aren't worth honoring, don't take it that way. What I'm saying is that if a soldiers stated goal is to die for his country, he's got his priorities wrong.
 
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Winston, wanting to play with the guns is a lousy reason to join up. Nobody, outside of special forces, gets near as much trigger time as they should in the armed forces today. If the guns are the main attraction, then you'd be better served to get a college degree in a high-paying field, make a lot of money, and then buy yourself all the guns and ammo you can stand.
If you decide you want to join anyway, the best kind of shape to be in is wiry and thin. Run a lot. Then run some more. Then run a bit more. Do push ups, do crunches, do pull ups. Excess weight, even in the form of muscle bulk, is the bane of basic training. The military tends to be endurance intensive rather than strength intensive. Playing with airsoft and paintballs is fun, but it won't transfer much to what they expect you to do in basic training.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
1) How is the length of your stay in the military determined?

Most M.O.S. (Military Occupational Specialty), have a required number of years of service. A thing to ask the recruiter is if there is any signing bonus for a specific M.O.S.
Keep in mind that those with incentive bonuses are the jobs that the service is short handed in to begin with, and there has to be a reason for that. Be it a cook or an “In flight missile technician†(<joke) there is a reason that the people in already don’t want the job even with the sign on bonus, try to find out why.


2) Exactly how do college grants work?

I was in during V.E.A.P (Veterans Education Assistance Program) I believe they matched 2$ for every 1$ I put in, or something along that line, I signed up for the program the last week it was available before they switched over to G.I.Bill 2

Follow this link to see the benefits for the plan for active service members.

MontgomeryGI Bill

3) How much firearm training will I get in boot? (Anti parents=no guns for Jack)

The Army calls it Basic Combat Training, when I was in (1983-1990) you received Basic rifle (M16), Hand to Hand (but never again, after basic training) Hand Grenades, Shot gun (which consisted of hitting a 4’X8†sheet of ply wood at 20’ with 4 shots) and basic pistol marksmanship.
Every six months, we re-qualified with the M-16 and Pistol; once a year we got to toss 2 live grenades but were not required to hit anything, just don’t kill your self at the grenade pit.

4) If you had to give one piece of advice to a incoming army man, what would it be?

As much as the Infantry is the back bone of the Army (bless their soul (sole)) try to enlist in something that will support you as a career in the rest of your life, even if you stay in for 30 years. And choose that line of profession in your M.O.S.
Take your time with the recruiter; he/she/IT is under pressure from recruiting command to get a specific amount of recruits per month. Use that to your advantage to haggle for your M.O.S. you want. They want a head count, don’t let them screw you. The Army/Navy/Air Force/Marines will be there next month, with the recruitment count set to 0 again.

5) Is there anything I can do RIGHT NOW to make my military life easier? (Running in boots, training with airsoft for example)

Basic training is the worst of it, that’s where they sort out the un-desirable individuals, who can not take orders, authority or a regimented lifestyle. If there is a way to prepare for the mind F* you receive in basic I don’t know how. Other than just open your mind, don’t think – just do! Do what you’re told. Don’t volunteer for anything. Don’t be first and don’t be last at anything.

6) - OEF_VET – He nailed


On a personal note, I don't think there is a better way to get started in life than by joining any of the service branches. There is a lot of XYZ is better than ABC banter from one service to the other, but when it comes down to it, there all good. Just pick what works for you.
Best of luck.


RTFM
 
Frank has it down cold. Living near Ft Jackson, my impression is that if your not going to opt for Combat Arms (Infantry, Armor, Field Artillery, Engineers), join the Marines.
 
Congratulations on the decision Jack. I enlisted in the Marine Corps a few months ago. I'd recommend talking to a recruiter now. The longer you are in the Delayed Entry Program (or whatever the Army calls it) the better prepared you'll be. If you want to serve as a grunt and get the best firearms training, you should think about the Corps. Not in any way putting the Army down, but my understanding is that the Marines place a lot more emphasis on that aspect of training than any other branch. We also have Force Recon and the scout snipers for more elite units.
Have you talked to your parents yet? The support (or lack of it) of a family can make a world of difference.
 
Winston, wanting to play with the guns is a lousy reason to join up

Well obviously, but a guys gotta keep his thread firearm related.


Dulce et decorum est is one of my favorite poems. You are exactly right, OEF_VET. My mistake.


Golgo 13, wiry and thin? I haven't heard a better description of me. I should go out on those 7 mile runs a few more times a week.
:D

Keep it coming guys, this is really helping
 
My .02

If you have a way to go to college after HS do it and take ROTC.
Take all the ROTC courses you can and let the ROTC officers be your advisors. While in college join the guard or reserve. After college go in full time(active) as an officer.

Life will be much better for you that way.
 
Things to do to help:

Get in good physical shape with and with an emphasis on endurance.

DO NOT RUN IN BOOTS. Running in boots is a great way to mess up your legs and maybe even your back. I work with an ex-Sergeant Major who came from the boot-running cheap-sneaker days of the military. His knees are incredibly bad now and he has a lot of trouble with them on a daily basis. Wear good running shoes and take care of yourself while you're young so your youth lasts longer.

I second the ROTC option if you can do it. Or you could go with one of the military academys if you can get in. Life is much better as an officer.
 
The Army Physical Fitness Test is push ups, sit ups, and a 2 mile run. Minimum scores are 42, 53 and 15:54 respectively for somebody in your age group. Be able to smoke the test before you show up and your life will be alot easier. If you were female, you could almost max the test with what would be a failing male score in push ups and the run, but oh well.

In basic, do what you are told as well as you can at all times and shut the hell up.

Depending on your commitment and academic credentials, entering one of the officer programs may be worth considering.

And finally, always assume that the recruiter is a dirty filthy liar. Trust only what is written in your enlistment contract; anything else he says you will get is a lie if it isn't in black and white.

Life is much better as an officer.

Yes and no. You get paid alot more at comparable times in service. You get to avoid a fair amount of menial stuff. There is certainly more prestige attached to being an officer than a private from the point of view of the outside world. Alot more is also demanded of you. If you are a dirtbag, being an officer can offer more physical comfort and an easier life. If you are dedicated, it will be harder in almost every respect.
 
"If you are a dirtbag, being an officer can offer more physical comfort and an easier life. If you are dedicated, it will be harder in almost every respect."

Harder in a challenging way. If you are serious about being in the Army challenging is what you want.

In addition to talking to a recruiter go talk to an ROTC officer at the college.
 
Nothing wrong with taking a two year enlistment, saving your money and then going to college. I knew quite a few officers who would have benefited from that sequence.
 
Hmm....

In prepping for basic training, two a few things.

1.) Push-ups. Learn to do a correct Army push-up, then do lots of them. Start with a number you can do, then do, say, two or three sets of those, every other night. Do 'em slow and make sure they're correct; helps if you have someone to spot you to make sure your back is straight and whatnot.

2.)Sit ups.

3.)Running. Don't run in boots; you won't really be required to in basic training, at least, not for regular PT. You'll be issued a PT uniform and tennis shoes for this. But run. Don't have to run fast, just run long and slow, and build up that cardiovascular system.

For the Army Physical Fitness Test, you'll be required to (assuming you're 18-21 years old) 42 pushups in 2 minutes, 53 situps in 2 minutes, and run the two mile in 15:54. If you can do this BEFORE you go to basic training, your life will be easier there.

4.)Walking. If you REALLY want, you could load up a heavy backpack and go for long hikes. Good exercise, and builds up your shoulder and neck area.


THINK ABOUT THIS, Long and hard. There are times when being a Crunchie is great. There are also many times when it completely fricking BLOWS. Once you enlist, you've an obligation. There's no going back or changing your mind until your contract is up. Military life is NOT for everyone. I, for instance, would probably be miserable on active duty, but the National Guard suits me fine.

Also, you know why they call grunts "Crunchies"? 'Cause that's the sound we make when tanks run us over. Think about that for a minute; this line of work CAN get you killed.

I'm not trying to discourage you; if you really want it, then go for it. Go serve your country and be proud of what you do. Just understand the risks involved and make sure it's what you really want. Combat might not seem too scary, but how's a fourteen month deployment in Kuwait (or some other crappy country) sound?

Good luck, anyways.
 
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Like I said, though, there are times when it's great.
 
Winston, wanting to play with the guns is a lousy reason to join up.

It's true that most GIs don't get the quantity of range time that they should, but the military is the only place that I can get the quality of gunplay I like, i.e. handing me a machinegun and 500 rounds to play with :)
 
WinstonSmith,

I commend you on your sense of patriotism, not many people today are willing to risk their lives for their country. It will be an honor to serve with you. Do try and take Gen. Patton's words to heart though. And listen to everything OEF-Vet has to say.

I have not joined yet (took the ASVAB yesterday and am just waiting on my graduation) but I have a small piece of advice. I have met quite a few people who joined the military straight out of high school. They went from living a strictly controlled life under their parents and the laws concerning juveniles to the strictly controlled life of the military. Once they got out they seemed to expect people to behave as though they were under the same controls they had been all their life and it was a bit of a culture shock. Just be careful that doesn't happen to you. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned opening your mind as a way to survive the mindgames of boot camp. I would highly suggest that at all times of your life.

This article really helped me with some of the same questions you are asking give it a read.

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/weekly/aa092302a.htm
 
My .02 cents
join the reserves, serve your active time, then go to college and then get commissioned
a buddy from college was a Marine reservist and they let him make up his monthly service dates after football season- they were pretty cool about it
My favorite is the Marine Corps, but Im biased because Im trying to get in to OCS for them this summer :)
PLC-Law here we come! (please Lord.....:rolleyes: )
BSR
 
Running in boots is a great way to mess up your legs and maybe even your back

Huh? I have back problems that affect my knees and feet (my entire body is slightly out-of balance, don't ask). At any rate, back when I was a civilian, I used to run in high-quality combat boots. These where much more comfortable (even for my tortured legs) than ordinary running shoes. At least, they where the only thing I could run/walk in for really long distances without suffering from pains.
 
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