Is my AR15's inability to cycle steel cases caused by its extractor?

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minutemen1776

minutemen1776

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The issue of steel-cased ammo (Wolf, Monarch, etc.) being used in AR15s comes up frequently. Basically, some folks have rifles that like the stuff, whereas others have fits with it. In the past, I've weighed in and noted that I have two AR15s, and the one with a chromed barrel/chamber cycles the steel-cased stuff fine while my non-chromed rifle won't reliably extract it and eventually chokes. In other words, based on my own experience, I've concluded that the problem lies in the chrome lining.

Recently, though, I replaced the BCG in my non-chromed rifle because it wasn't mil spec (gas key staking and all that). I upgraded to a Daniel Defense BCG, and I could tell right away that it's much better quality than the original I had. It got me thinking, though, that maybe the failures to extract I was experiencing with steel cases in that rifle were caused by a weak extractor in my old BCG. I haven't gotten to try the rifle with the new BCG and steel cases yet, so I'm not sure. But does this sound like the more likely culprit for my problems with steel cases in that rifle? It'd be great if I'd unwittingly solved the problem by getting a new BCG. Thoughts?
 
It's generally the chrome that helps extraction BUT a good strong ejector/spring won't hurt.

However if the ejector is "good" and strong but the chamber is sticky then you will pull the rim off the case.

The main problem is that the .223/5.56 case is very "straight" walled unlike the 7.62x39
which is more angled and extracts much easier.
 
Steel lets more gas leak back into the chamber. That carbon can 'glue' the case to the walls, causing FTEx.

Chrome is slippery and carbon doesn't stick to it very well. That improves extraction as well as making the bore easier to clean. That's assuming that there weren't manufacturing or corrosion defects in the non-chromed barrel. BSW
 
For what it's worth, I tried out my new BCG this weekend using Wolf steel-cased ammo. I ripped off 40 rounds with zero malfunctions in a rifle that has previously had difficulties digesting anything but brass. I had intended to put more rounds through it to test my theory, but the range closed a little sooner than I'd liked or anticipated. :( I hope to get back out there later in the week and try some more of the steel stuff.
 
My only AR steel cased issue has been one gun with an out of spec extractor hook, stronger extractor spring helped a little but didn't solve the issue, but when I compared the hook that didn't work to one that did, the difference was obvious. Filing the bad extractor hook to match the good one solved the problem, but it was only an academic exercise while waiting for the replacement part to arrive. The bad hook had always been fine with brass cased ammo.

I'm really deaf to claims of steel cased ammo breaking guns. Ain't much of a gun if steel cased ammo breaks it! -- not long into a TEOTWAWKI scenario you'd be thrilled to find ammo the quality of Wolf. Compare the price of steel cased ammo to the cheapest brass cased you can find its it like shoot eight cases and get a free AR!
 
As mentioned, it seems that more gas/carbon is able to get into the chamber area with steel cased ammo than with brass. Another factor with steel cased ammo is that it is usully lacquer coated and when hot becomes gummy. This gummy lacquer combined with excessive carbon may cause shells to stick in the chamber, non chromed chambers moreso than chromed chambers. Excessive amounts of carbon and other gunk in AR-15/M-16 type chambers causes difficulties in extraction.

If you cleaned your upper and especially your chamber when you changed your BCG you might have solved the problem in spite of the new parts. Get a good chamber brush, some good solvent and clean the chamber well and often, especially when using lacquer coated ammunition.

Dirty non chromed chambers were nearly the downfall of the early military M-16's and caused many a malfunction that was sometimes fatal.
 
Steel cased ammo doesn't expand as fully, so there is a lot of carbon blow by that sticks to the chamber walls. If you fire some brass cased ammo after shooting the steel cased stuff you can see the carbon streaks on the brass case.

Solution: Use your chamber brush regularly and you'll have no problems with extraction.

"If your AR won't shoot steel cased ammo, put a skirt on it.":evil:
 
My Bushmaster 16" stock with no upgrades shot about 1000 rds of wolf with minimal cleaning (quick wipedown of the BCG and lubing) with 0 failures. Seems like its luck of the draw as is with most guns. But, I would definitely still strengthen the extraction just in case.
 
Its a case of the steel cases not sealing as well as th brass cases which leads to carbon build up in the chamber.

The lacquer or polymer does NOT melt off or get gummy.

The past two weekends I have gone out and shot several magazines (each trip) of Wolf Military Classic out of my Bushmaster. Everyone fed, fired and extracted. If you shoot your rifle very fast, emptying magazines quite fast you could get a failure to extract. I had to go "Rambo" to get this to happen in my rifle.

For plinking or doing drills where you are not doing magazine dumps, Wolf works just fine. If you want to attack a horde of zombies.....then brass cased ammo is the ticket.
 
Also keep in mind that some barrels marked 5.56 NATO are either on the short side as far as throat dimensions go or marked 5.56mm and are actually .223 Remington. A true 5.56 NATO chamber is much more forgiving with steel case ammo (Which has WIDE variations in case/neck length) than .223. A good gunsmith can check throat dimensions and ream the chamber throat, or you can do it yourself with the tools here:

www.michiguns.com

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
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A good quality AR15 should feed steel cased ammo. Period.

If my guns didn't work with steel cased ammo, I would be worried.
 
The steel used is a very mild steel. It is MUCH softer than the barrel, chamber, and bolt(or atleast should be). But it is less likely your extractor, and could have been the chamber(too dirty) as stated by others above...

If it's extracting now however, it may have just been a combination of issues with the chamber, bolt, and carrier combination(wrong planetary alignment who knows).

The only time I have had problems wih steel cases extracting poorly, was during a little torture text I ran with the OLD Wolf ammo. The stuff that looked like they melted wax as the primer sealant. The sealant would "flake off" and get every where(especially the mag, and chamber)! After ~650 rounds out of a case of a 1000, it had like 3-5 failures to
extract, or eject. When I finally broke it down to clean it(didn't make it to 1000, just couldn't do that to her:(), it looked like I let a red candle melt in the chamber. Took over an hour to get back to bare chrome.

But for your issues, if it ain't broke now.... Well you know the rest.

Still 2 Many Choices!?
 
I got back out today and put another 180 steel-cased rounds through my AR. I had not even cleaned the rifle since I put 40 rounds through it on Sunday. I had ZERO malfunctions through all 220 rounds. This is a big deal for me, because this rifle has previously been unable to go 30-40 rounds without a serious malfunction using Wolf or other steel-cased ammo. Yes, I did clean the rifle, including the chamber, before I began on Sunday. However, in the past I've often scrubbed the chamber to try to remedy the rifle's troubles with steel cases, without any success. I have to conclude that my new BCG, and specifically a better extractor, has everything to do with this change in performance. I'm quite a happy shooter over this! :D
 
Wolf of any grain wont cycle in my colt. & the same prob for my friends new bushmaster H-bar. not sure why? i kinda figured it WOLF didnt have enough gas pressure to cycle. cause it aint never jammed or FTF, FTCycle on any thing else.
WOLF is for my mini 14.
& i dont care where the steal casings land. Next county most times
Try some PMC i like it for plinking & you can save the brass. the primer pockets are fun to prep for reloading. Just a warning if you reload
 
I'm really deaf to claims of steel cased ammo breaking guns. Ain't much of a gun if steel cased ammo breaks it! -- not long into a TEOTWAWKI scenario you'd be thrilled to find ammo the quality of Wolf. Compare the price of steel cased ammo to the cheapest brass cased you can find its it like shoot eight cases and get a free AR!
Click to expand...

I have to agree with Wally, steel case has its place in the AR world. Use it when you can get away with it. I buy it in bulk for my AR and AK.
 
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