Is the U.S. a great country? Doubt it.

[European Courier]

Hello guys,

U.S. justice used to be blind and justices of the Supreme Court used to be good lawyers. However if you look at the verdict in Mapp v. Ohio there is nothing that can persuade you that you are living in a normal and safe country. This verdict suppressed all evidence in criminal trials in state courts, which was obtained without a search warrant. The result of this verdict is that murderers and killers escape justice, are let free and live among us instead of in prisons, just because some policemen did not obtain a valid search warrant before collecting evidence. How ridiculous this law is can be seen in Collidge v. New Hampshire – a guy who killed 14 years old was set free because the evidence against him could not be presented in the court. Everybody is telling that the U.S. is a great country, is it really? It doesn’t seem so.

You can read about it over here:
http://europeancourier.org/CriminalJustice_9_23_06.htm

and also here:
http://www.tourolaw.edu/PATCH/Mapp/

or here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mapp_v._Ohio

 

[JohnBT]

Yep, it's a great country.

"In this way, the Supreme Court of the United States gave more significance to the stringent observance of the procedural laws than to the proper administration of justice."

The proper administration of justice requires that laws be followed. Makes sense to me even though it doesn't to you.

John

 

[Eightball]

Yes, it's great.

Why, is there some alternative you were planning on moving to?

It's the best around.

 

[22-rimfire]

Our laws were designed to protect the little guy. You are innocent until proven guilty. Sometimes circumstances do not allow evidence to be used. You might try China or Iran?

So, what hole did you crawl out of?

 

[Brian Williams]

Yep, tis a great country,
Better than most,
Has problems,
Tain't perfect,
That would be Heaven
Ain't there yet.


b
<><

 

[Phenom]

The United States has it's good points and it's bad points, just like any other country

 

[Zedicus]

If you consider the Alternatives, the US is the best on the planet.

 

[SolaScriptura139]

Name one country that protects a human's inalieble rights the way the US does. Of course we have our problems, no gov't is perfect, but no other country is better than us when it comes to freedom. But if you don't like freedom, you could always move to China.

 

[bakert]

With all of the real or imagined faults of the USA, it's my country and anyone who thinks it's so bad has my blessing to leave it. Both my Father and son fought for this country and I'm damned proud of both.The worst faults this country has in my opinion is some of our duly elected lawgivers and I'm not talking about George W. Bush.

 

[CornCod]

Every year thousands and thousands of crooks are sent to jail and prison. We have the largest percentage of our population behind bars than any other country in the world.

If cops and prosecutors are so dumb as to not get a proper search warrant, a feature of hundreds of years of Anglo-Saxon law, then they deserve to lose the case.

Some people think that thousands of criminals are getting off the hook on proceedural grounds. Its not true. Its a myth.

To be safe from arbitrary search and seizure is a wonderful thing. Due process is a wonderful thing. Just wait until some crooked cop or prosecutor trumps up some BS chrages on you someday or you are falsely accused of some crime. It can happen to nearly anyone. You will thank God that such protections exist. Frankly, I don't think they will last too long in the current political environment. These protections are not liberal BS, but part of our revered legal traditions.

 

[geekWithA.45]

So, removing incentive for the authorities to abuse trample seach & siezure protections provided by 4A is sufficient grounds for you to doubt that the US is a great country?

Wow.

Your threshold's pretty easy to meet.


Elsewhere in your mag, you've got an article that pans the US legal system because {*gasp*} it sometimes erroneously convicts the innocent.

Guess what? ANY human endeavor is subject to error, and noting that a system sometimes arrives at flawed outcomes, (which in your example were corrected, I might add) is an obvious, and ultimately meaningless statement, unless you do something with it to compare it with the error rates of another system, with an eye towards making an improvement.

Furthermore, you've prefaced that article with the statement

Criminal justice system of the United States is frequently regarded as one of the best-organized and most efficient legal systems in the world.

but by the end of the paragraph...

However, such an opinion not entirely would be honest. As many politicians and activists admit, American criminal justice system despite its outstanding features does not always work as properly as it should be.

Essentially, you attempt to imply the disproof of a relative statement (~the US..regarded as one of the best organized and efficient in the world~) by offering an absolute statement (~it does not always work properly~), but your case is not made, in that the mere fact of erroneous outcome is not compared to the rates of erroneous outcome of other systems.


Skimming your site, I see enough similiar acts of dubious "logic" that I feel no need to return.

 

[carpediem]

Shame on all you ignorant, bigoted, ethnocentric insular types

Don't you know that the US is the most backward, hated country in the world? Now if only we were a great country like Venezuela, France, or Iran....

 

[XLMiguel]

Yeah, we've got our problems, what country doesn't? We call it a legal system, as opposed to a justice system, FWIW.

Talk is cheap most everywhere because the supply tends exceeds the demand - So, where are you and just what are you offering as a better alternative?

 

[Sam]

Whell Mr. European Courier,
I think it pretty great. beats teh living $#!t out of any of the more than 70 other nations I have managed to visit.

Biggest evidence is the number of folks getting killed trying to get into the u.s..


Anyone dying to get into France or Ddenmark lately?


Sam

 

[SigfanUSAF]

Name another English speaking country with gun laws that parallel ours.
Though we may not get all the guns we want, at least we don't have to resort to butterknives!

 

[gunsmith]

we are so bad

millions try to get here by legal means or not.

we are so bad people will swim from cuba/hati to get here.

you really hurt my feelings

 

[david_the_greek]

well judging by your name there is a possibility you are european? (well I guess most americans have some kind of european heritage) Well guess what this country rebuilt your whole damn continent so why don't you go back home and think about how much money, military and political support has been given to europe through the last 60 years. then think about all the personal freedoms that have been taken away from the peoples that inhabit the european continent. sure we've gotten some ignorant politicians and we get things wrong at home and abroad, but guess what so has Europe. If you guys want to complain about our legal and political systems (and believe me I do aswell) why don't you first remember hitler,mussolini, napolean, and everyother king, queen, and whack job that has insighted a European country to go kill, rape and pillage helpless nations. next time you want to critisize the U.S. do it in German or Russian, because thats what you'd be speaking if it werent for this great FREE nation.

granted none of what I said is especially relevent to what this guy is saying I get frustrated when people critisize the U.S. without acknowledging that they have no existing alternative........ oh yeah if you are german or russian then ignore my suggestion on how to vocally express yourself

Oh yeah and as unfortunate and disgusting as it is that a criminal may walk, it is proof that our system somewhat works, I don't want my government being able to illegally charge me. Who knows what a completely unchained police and legal system could do to all us freedom loving peoples... actually history has proven what happens multiple times around the world.

 

[Ed 2001 SS]

I love the Fourth Amendment. An unfortunate side effect is that some guilty people will go free. It's the price we pay for keeping the government honest when it comes to searching a person's house / possessions. I'm sure there are countries that don't have these restrictions on their government's ability to search people's homes. China is an example that comes to mind. The more efficient a government, the more authoritarian it is.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

This Country Can Be Perfect...

...when perfect people can be elected to office. No other system of government even comes close to offering the possibility of such an election. It hasn't happened yet, but then not everyone has run for office yet.

As for the admissibility of evidence seized during a botched warrant execution, the intent of the warrant has most likely been executed and the evidence should be admissible. Those who violated the rights of the subject of the botched execution of the warrant should be held accountable, however, and such a suit brought against those who screwed up the warrant's execution just might pay for the defendant's defense and appeals! That would be incentive for those executing a warrant to do it properly. A little direction from the legislature outlining methods for executing warrants would help as well. It isn't in the purview of the Court.

Woody

Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin making law....an oligarchy...the rule of few over many.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Don't feed the Trolls.

 

[easy]

You come on here and have to ask? What level of moron are you?

 

[beerslurpy]

Youre a twit.

The police know they are supposed to get warrants. They know what will happen if they fail to do so: the exclusionary rule will be exercised upon the evidence. And it happened in this case and many others, for better or worse.

If anything, the fact that our government is powerless before the force of our laws is a more powerful argument for our greatness than any bogus criteria you could offer.

 

[Autolycus]

Sounds like someone is jealous of the freedoms we Americans have.

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

Our laws were designed to protect the little guy

That statement is true, but only because you chose to utilize the word "were", rather than the present from, "are".

Modern American laws are designed to help ONLY the "big guy" - industrialists, power-brokers, political crooks (read all: billionares).

"Americanism", being the spirit of freedom, fairness and equality began to seep out of the United States at the end of the 1960's, and by the 1980's the general acceptance of militarism and inequality (primarily the inequality between the "haves"- who have nearly everything- and the rest...) the spirit of change, progress and fairness was almost totally gone from the US.


There is actually a debate going on right now in this country over whether or not it is OK to torture people. There is clear, undisputed evidence that members of the United States military and Intelligence agencies have actually killed numerous people during torture sessions.

Despite this, and despite undisputable evidence that we are currently fighting a war against a nation that has never provoked nor threatened our homeland we continue to support the liars and scoundrels who brought our nation into this war under flase pretenses and out-right lies.

American does not invade.

No matter how bad Roosevelt wanted to join the second World War on behalf of our British allies, he knew that it was fundamentally un-American to engage in a war without prior military agression brought forth against the United States of America.

But all of that honor, glory and prestige is behind us. We are now a nation that is willing to kill is vast numbers for the gains of the opulent class. We are willing to murder civilians by the tens of thousands in Iraq, to torture in secret prisons around the globe, and even to let our own die so that a few may prosper.

 

[grampster]

Actually the stumbling blocks in the way of LE makes for better LE. One has to be smarter and better to catch crooks. The rules elevate LE. Also it's not like the rules are unknown.