Is there any reason for me to keep my 4473s

[12Bravo20]

Back when I had my FFL, I would give a customer a photo copy of the 4473 if they asked for one. I don't remember anyone asking for a copy though.

Back when Missouri still had it's Jim Crow laws and we were required to get a handgun permit from our local sheriff, I did make and keep copies of those. I have never asked for a copy of a 4473 that I had to fill out as a customer (post FFL). I do keep copies of the approval letters I received after successfully appealing a transaction denial. But I haven't had to appeal since filing a VAF and getting issued a UPIN.

Side note: if you have a UPIN, make sure the clerks give the NICS center your UPIN to keep from getting denied. I had a clerk at Cabela's tell me she did not have to input my UPIN and she refused to do so. The transaction was denied. I got a call the next morning from her manager apologizing for the mistake and that I could come pick up my firearm.

Back on subject. Unless it is a state requirement, then one does not need to keep a copy of their 4473's when purchasing firearms. I am not familiar with the different state laws especially where the state acts as a POC for the background checks.

 

[Charlie98]

Interesting conversation. Let me spin it a little...

Is there anyone that has retained a copy of their 4473 (not as an FFL, but as a buyer...) and needed it to substantiate any sort of claim?

I have never asked for, nor been offered, a copy of a 4473, and thankfully I live in a state where further process is not required... so I don't have anything. I have a very few sales receipts, or handwritten/printed BOS's for the firearms I've bought over the years. I have a spreadsheet for my current firearms... mostly for insurance purposes, but also to keep track of what I've paid for some of them, but if I sell something, I drop it off the spreadsheet... I don't retain any record of what I've had previously.

 

[Ks5shooter]

If you want them ,store on phone or computer in a file. Take pics of 4473 with receipt,good info for you. Or God forbid insurance purposes.

 

[AlexanderA]

I am not familiar with the different state laws especially where the state acts as a POC for the background checks.

In Virginia, the State Police acts as the POC for background checks. There is a supplemental state form that has to be filled out along with the 4473 (Virginia has some additional disqualifying conditions). But the customer doesn't normally get copies of the forms.

 

[dogtown tom]

Back when I had my FFL, I would give a customer a photo copy of the 4473 if they asked for one. I don't remember anyone asking for a copy though.

Several years ago there were a couple of manufacturers that had a rebate that required a copy of the 4473. I made copies for those customers.
I have one customer that always want to take a phot of the 4473 after I sign it.

 

[rkittine]

I still have all my 4473s from 1970 forward, but those are mine as an FFL holder. I have never been given a copy of a 4473 for any purchase I made for myself unless I bought it wholesale and ran it through my Bound Books.

 

[davethedog]

Interesting because yesterday i bought a little baby pistol from Academy Sports and they refused to let me even take a picture of the electronic 4473 on the computer screen. They did give me a copy of their electronic bound book acquisition/disposition. That's not exactly what i would call indisputable proof of ownership. I almost told them to take the gun back. It's apparently their store policy but why? It's all your personal information on the form. Lately i have been making sure i had copies of 4473's on my phone for anything i would have on me or in a vehicle. Why would you even want the copy? It is possible for a FFL to sell a stolen gun legally. I was arrested and charged last year for possession of a stolen firearm i bought NIB from an FFL dealer 17 years prior with background check and 4473 form. I don't want to keep beating a dead horse as this had already been posted and discussed here, but if i had a copy of the 4473 it could have been cleared up quickly.

 

[12Bravo20]

Interesting because yesterday i bought a little baby pistol from Academy Sports and they refused to let me even take a picture of the electronic 4473 on the computer screen. They did give me a copy of their electronic bound book acquisition/disposition. That's not exactly what i would call indisputable proof of ownership. I almost told them to take the gun back. It's apparently their store policy but why? It's all your personal information on the form. Lately i have been making sure i had copies of 4473's on my phone for anything i would have on me or in a vehicle. Why would you even want the copy? It is possible for a FFL to sell a stolen gun legally. I was arrested and charged last year for possession of a stolen firearm i bought NIB from an FFL dealer 17 years prior with background check and 4473 form. I don't want to keep beating a dead horse as this had already been posted and discussed here, but if i had a copy of the 4473 it could have been cleared up quickly.

I can see where having a copy of the 4473 would be very handy to have in that type of situation. BUT having the sales receipt will do the same thing. While I have never asked for a copy of any 4473 for myself, I do keep every single receipt when buying from a FFL and a bill of sales if I buy from an individual. I also keep a bill of sales if/when I sell a firearm to an individual for my own protection too.

I can't answer why Academy would not give you a copy or let you take a photo. The A&D books will show who the FFL transferred the firearm to but doesn't show the BGC info or NTN.

Even with the incident at Cabela's I posted about earlier where the clerk failed to input my UPIN, I only kept the sales receipt. The receipt is enough proof to show that the firearm was purchased through a FFL.

To each their own. If you want to keep copies of 4473s that is your prerogative but it is not necessary to do so as a non licensed individual.

 

[dogtown tom]

Interesting because yesterday i bought a little baby pistol from Academy Sports and they refused to let me even take a picture of the electronic 4473 on the computer screen. They did give me a copy of their electronic bound book acquisition/disposition. That's not exactly what i would call indisputable proof of ownership.

What makes you think that a Form 4473 has anything at all to do with ownership?
It has nothing to do with ownership, but is a record of a firearm transaction between a licensed dealer and a nonlicensee. It is not a proof of purchase nor does it register the firearm to the buyer. The buyer can sell it the next day, next week or next month and nothing is done to that original Form 4473.

I almost told them to take the gun back. It's apparently their store policy but why?

No idea. No law prevents the dealer from making a copy or allowing you to photograph a 4473.

...Lately i have been making sure i had copies of 4473's on my phone for anything i would have on me or in a vehicle.

What on earth for?
A copy of the 4473 only means you at one point in time acquired a firearm from a licensed dealer. It doesn't mean you are currently the owner.

Why would you even want the copy? It is possible for a FFL to sell a stolen gun legally. I was arrested and charged last year for possession of a stolen firearm i bought NIB from an FFL dealer 17 years prior with background check and 4473 form. I don't want to keep beating a dead horse as this had already been posted and discussed here, but if i had a copy of the 4473 it could have been cleared up quickly.

I read your story https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...aled-carry-weapon.904832/page-2#post-12276950
and I don't think for one minute a copy of your Form 4473 would have kept you out of cuffs.

Anyone, anywhere in the world can go to https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download print out a copy and fill out a 4473 with the name and serial# of John Dillinger's Glock 7. It doesn't mean squat. Any police officer that takes a 4473 copy as proof of ownership isn't much of a cop.

If ATF intended for the buyer/transferee to get a copy because they needed a copy......you would get a copy.