Is This a Fair Offer for Wheel Weights?

[il.bill]

I run a small town auto repair shop that has been in my family since the 1930's and have recently uncovered 60-100 pounds of used lead wheel weights dating back to the 1980's and 1990's. I do not cast bullets myself but have a buddy who does it in various calibers. I have sold him 10-20 pounds of wheel weights at a time before, always at 5 or 10 cents less than the then current recycle/scrap value. He derives a significant portion of his income from reloading cartridges and does quite an excellent job of it.

My question to you is: Would I be out of line to offer him these fairly clean, all lead - no zinc, wheel weights in exchange for one-third of the total weight in cast bullets in return?

I do not want to insult him, but that seemed reasonable to me, based on a valuation breakdown of casting the bullets as 1/3 for raw materials, 1/3 for the necessary equipment, and 1/3 for expertise and labor. We are both big boys and can obviously decide each for ourselves whether this is a fair deal. I will approach him and see what he says, but I was just curious what you folks who actually cast lead bullets would think of this offer. Thank you for your input.

 

[colonelhogan44]

I would say that would be fair if it was in clean ingots already and as long as you are not demanding them upfront. Whenever he makes a run of bullets, just tap off 1/3 of them. I'd agree to that with one of my friends.

If it was raw ww as you say, however, I'd be more reticent -- smelting that crap is no fun.

 

[James2]

Maybe a little steep, How about one out of 4 bullets made? There is some waste in a bucketful of wheel weights, then I like to add a little tin to the alloy, plus fuel for heat and flux and sizing lube, tools and labor.

 

[Bassleg]

James2 has the answer ya what he said.

 

[Fractal X]

I've been casting WW into bullets for a couple years now - Similar to what's already been said, I think 1/3 is a bit steep for raw wheel weights. Not only is smelting them all down a pain, but when I do it I lose 15-20% of my net weight to the steel clips (in addition to all the fuel burned). After all that, the melt gets cast into ingots that can actually get put through my electric casting pot.

Do you know what his process or batch size is like? Personally, I won't smelt less than 100# of WW in a batch. When I sit down to actually do the bullet casting, I'll usually do 25-35# per bullet/caliber at a time.

All in all, I think that 1/4 to 1/5 the weight in bullets would be closer to fair as long as he's supplying you what he's selling to everyone else. I would expect custom work (special sizing, lubing, etc.) to cost extra.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Maybe a little steep, How about one out of 4 bullets made? There is some waste in a bucketful of wheel weights, then I like to add a little tin to the alloy, plus fuel for heat and flux and sizing lube, tools and labor.

Since he's a good friend I would only ask for 20% in bullets. Remember, the steel hooks are part of the weight so that 100lbs isn't 100 lbs of usable lead.

20% brings you to 140,000 grains of lead and 25% gets you to 175,000 grains.
If you do the math that brings you to just under 900 158gr .38 Special bullets @20% and 1100 158gr .38 Special bullets @25%.

100 lbs of lead on the market right now is worth $98 but like I said, if the WW weigh 100 lbs that's not all usable lead. Missouri Bullets sells 500 158gr .38 Special bullets for $35.50 plus shipping so if he gives you 1000 bullets he's giving you right around full price for the lead. (and he has to do all the labor)

 

[bayjoe]

I would agree to give one bullet in 3 for free lead.
Lead is getting hard to come by and your friend probably knows that.

 

[il.bill]

I would agree to give one bullet in 3 for free lead.
Lead is getting hard to come by and your friend probably knows that.

Thank you for the replies.
When I asked my buddy I told him to first think about it before answering, and he replied that he would "need less than a second to think about it before saying: 'Yes' ". He said that with the legislated demise of lead wheel weights he would be glad to "take that offer all day long".
Most of them are 2.5-4.0 ounce wheel weights, some stick-on mag type, so the percentage of total weight from the steel clips would be less than in an average assortment. When I get the last of them together I can make an appropriate adjustment in the total weight to help make up for the steel, but he is happy and so am I. As he does his casting from now through the winter he will have no out of pocket expense for the lead and will be intermittently dropping me off some 158 grain .358" and 250 grain .452" bullets. I call that a Win-Win situation.

 

[FROGO207]

Sounds as though the deal is a good one. I would not worry about anything either if you both think that each one got the better end of the deal.

 

[Reefinmike]

If someone offered to hook me up with free lead ww's, Id have no problem giving them a third of the ingot weight back in bullets. Id even go 50/50. doesnt take but an hour to pump out 600 bullets with a six cavity mold.

 

[Schwing]

I thought about starting a new thread but I figure you guys could shed some light on this. I have just started using wheel weights and have not had great luck. I didn't do a good enough job of temp control on my first batch of about 50 pounds and got some zinc in them I think I will still try and cast them anyway but....

I just picked up my second bucket of just over 100 pounds and, as i am sorting through it, i am coming to see that at least 30-40% of them are steel or zinc. Even a high number of the stick on weights are steel or zinc now. The cheapest I have been able to get them for is around .60 per pound. I have to wonder, since I have been able to get lead off of ebay for around $1.30-$1.50 per pound, is it still worth the effort in fuel, time, lead exposure, and uncertainty of it working out to be caste-able alloy?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I would not pay .60 a pound for unsorted wheel weights. No way. But, I don't have to here. Your situation may be quite different in Utah.

I pay $40 a 5-gallon bucket for unsorted, and that's expensive to some people. I went to a scrap yard the other day and paid 0.35 a pound for them and they were sorted with the steel and zinc removed. That's the only way I'll pay by the pound.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I thought about starting a new thread but I figure you guys could shed some light on this. I have just started using wheel weights and have not had great luck. I didn't do a good enough job of temp control on my first batch of about 50 pounds and got some zinc in them I think I will still try and cast them anyway but....

I just picked up my second bucket of just over 100 pounds and, as i am sorting through it, i am coming to see that at least 30-40% of them are steel or zinc. Even a high number of the stick on weights are steel or zinc now. The cheapest I have been able to get them for is around .60 per pound. I have to wonder, since I have been able to get lead off of ebay for around $1.30-$1.50 per pound, is it still worth the effort in fuel, time, lead exposure, and uncertainty of it working out to be caste-able alloy?

As long as your costs for the scrap lead are low enough to make sure you don't overpay for the steel and zinc content I would say keep buying the scrap lead AND buy ready made alloy to supplement your needs. I would not however buy lead off ebay and opt for commercial foundry lead instead. Try to find someone locally so you can save the considerable costs in shipping something as heavy as lead and because you have a fact to fact with the local guy you will eventually get better deals because you are a return customer.

 

[45_auto]

is it still worth the effort in fuel, time, lead exposure, and uncertainty of it working out to be caste-able alloy?

Depends on how much casting you do and how much your time is worth to you.

Do you cast enough bullets to make it worth saving $50 or so on every 100 pounds of lead?

100 pounds of lead will cast about 3000 .44's, or 4500 .38's, or 6000 9mm's.

 

[Schwing]

I did some quick numbers and estimate that I use just shy of 200 pounds per year. Of course... I would like to step that up a notch which is why I decided to start casting.

I have looked a little into foundry lead but it seems to run at least $2 per pound. Do you have any sources for this that you use that might be cheaper? I have, actually, had really good luck with the ebay lead I have purchased to date. I try and stick to range lead and it almost always seems to run between about 10-14 bhn.

The reason that this kind of came to a head for me is that, as I have ranted about on other threads, my lead levels have been hovering around 30 for awhile. I do all of the hand washing etc. and I moved my tumbling outside. I have also started using a respirator when I shoot and smelt but limiting my exposure as much as possible has, unfortunately, become a factor. I am just weighing the effort against the money... Sometimes being OCD and cheap at the same time really sucks.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

is it still worth the effort in fuel, time, lead exposure, and uncertainty of it working out to be caste-able alloy?

Lead exposure - Use a little common sense and it's not an issue.

Uncertainty of it being castable alloy - Another non-issue. Wheel weights are a very reliable source for casting lead.

The other stuff depends on if its worth it to you.

 

[hunterwinco]

Do you currently sell your wheel weights or is this a dusty pail in the back corner that you just unearthed? I'm sure people will say I am a bonehead, but if the guy was my "buddy" and I didn't cast I would probably give them to him, smile and say "remember me in your will" If he makes good use of them, he will pay-it-forward...if they don't work out that well or there is a lot of crap in there then he won't be coming back and whining about it. Buddies are valuable, lead is just...lead.

 

[flashhole]

That deal sounded a bit unfair to me. 1/3 is giving up a lot. I smelt about 100 pounds of wheel weight lead every year. Never have to pay for any of it but barter some bush hogging during the weed season. Smelting wheel weights is a messy, stinky, time consuming job with a lot of scrap. I smelt and flux it twice before sending it to the pour pot where it gets fluxed again during bullet casting. Wheel weight lead is dirty and quality bullet molds are expensive. I only cast for myself and my motivation is simple - I'm less dependent on bullet manufacturers.

Good on both of you if you are comfortable with the arrangement.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

He's your buddy. Talk to him about it.

Time is money, as we all know, and how much time and effort your buddy has to make to turn those into decent bullets is a matter he would know.

Since he's getting the lead free of charge from you (he pays no money), then it's just a matter of how valuable his time is to him in bullet production. If he figures your offer is a decent deal for something he doesn't have to pay out of pocket for, he'll tell you.

Just approach it like the buddies you are. "Hey, I found close to a hundred pounds of good quality lead weights. If you're interested in it, then instead of paying me cash by the pound for it like usual, maybe we can make a deal for some bullets in exchange because I could sure use some. Maybe 1/4 or 1/3 return in bullets? What kind of exchange would be worth it to you for all this lead?"

It's all about the presentation. You're buddies...I'm sure you can work something out. He gets lead with no out of pocket expense and you get bullets with no out of pocket expense. As long as you're both happy, seal a deal!

Good luck! And let us know what deal you two work out.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like I said above, he's "paying" you right around full retail @1/3 return and he's doing all the labor. I would not have asked for more than 20% if anything at all.

 

[il.bill]

We are both happy so by definition the trade must be a good deal for each of us.

Just for fun, I ran some numbers. Used, dirty assorted wheel weights currently bring .35 per pound locally. Sixty pounds are thus worth $21.00 cash. One-third of 60# (my weights are all old lead ones - cleaner and larger than average, no zinc or steel, other than the clips) equals 20 pounds or 140,000 grains at 7,000 grains per pound. 140,000 divided by 158 grains (.38 spl. SWC) equals about 886 bullets, so my 'out of pocket' cost would be 2.4 cents each; 255 grain .45 bullets would cost me 3.8 cents each.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Sounds like two happy campers to me! Congratulations!