Is this practical...or just ridiculous?

[Atticus]

I've just purchased a pre-owned (but NIB) S&W model 625. It comes with a 3" barrel istalled, but includes the original 5" as well. I've always wanted a short barreled revolver to compliment my 1955 Target model and 1911.
I've also always wanted a more powerfull revolver that would give me the option of hunting deer size game, or one that could serve as a trail gun in bear country (assuming I ever get to take a trip to bear country ). Would it make sense to have this 625 cylinder converted to .460 Rowland by Clark ($99) thereby allowing me to shoot powderpuff .45 acp reloads or magnum category ammo in the same package? I realize that the .460 Rowland would be a handfull in this gun, but it would get used very rarely. Feedback?

 

[Edward429451]

I've never shot a 460R but from what I know of the ballistics of it, I'd say its an excellant conversion for your intended use of it.

The brass is probably expensive and may be a little hard to chase down. I wonder if the brass for it can be made from cut down .308 Win brass?

Maybe someone has access to specs and pics of the 460R brass that they can post??

 

[Atticus]

Edward: Brass is available from Starline http://www.starlinebrass.com/. at $84/500.
Supposedly, Georgia Arms and Triton make ammo, but I couldn't locate it on either website. GA has a hyperlink to .460 Rowland, but I couldn't get it to work.

 

[Edward429451]

Yeah that is kind of pricey.

460 Rowland is a lengthened heavy duty 45 Auto based case

Thats what I figured. Sounds suspiciously like a cut down 308! I just mentioned that on the assumption that ammo may not hold the same availability or pricing in the future, and if (when) that happens, it'd be nice to be able to keep it shooting by forming your own. A lot of those brass forming operations are really easy, usually one step, run it up in the die, cut with hacksaw, deburr and done!

Just thoughts. Those 625's are the only thing S&W makes that I'd be interested in. I would put the longer tube on it myself...

 

[Atticus]

Found this at Biggerhammer.net


"The .451 is an elongated .45 ACP; in terms of case construction, it might be closer to a shortened .308. The case head/web area is stronger than .45 ACP, but I don't know if the changes are internal or external. I think guns chambered in .451 were at one time shipped with a reamer, so trimmed .308 cases could be used as a source of brass. The idea was to use a lengthened case to avoid chambering in a .45 ACP, but to keep OAL the same, so it would operate in standard-length actions; along the lines of the relationship of the 9x19 and 9x21. By loading 185gr flat points to the same OAL as hardball, a lot of case volume was created, and this allowed very high velocities without magnum pressures. The .460 Rowland, which was getting written-up in the gun rags about a year ago, seems to be a reinvention of the .451."

Regarding barrel length: I agree that the 5" barrel would work better (and is required for deer hunting in Ohio) but I want a snubbie for awhile at least.

 

[Edward429451]

I couldn't make the biggerhammer link work but found this:

http://www.concealco.com/460rowland.html

It says you can get a 200 gr up to 1700 (!) and a 185 up to 1940...wow. Even with a shorter tube they would still be very respectable I think. The recoil may need getting used to. Maybe you could even use a slightly lighter bullet even to reduce recoil in the snub even more. Heck, they use 115's and 125's in 9mm, and they do ok for SD.

Do you reload? Chrony?

This is a very interesting idea you have here.

 

[Atticus]

Sorry, it's biggerhammer.net. I'll definately have to pick up some big cushy rubber grips if I do it. It'll be awhile before I can afford to pick up a .44 mag, so this seems like a decent alternative. I do reload, but don't have a chrony.

 

[Majic]

One consideration when making conversion cases from .308 brass is case volume. The case walls will be thicker on a cut down .308 and some inside neck reaming may be needed. The volume maybe less also because of the wall thickness so max loads have to be approached very carefully. I would try to obtain the case volume (measured in water) of a factory case and compare it to the case volume of the .308 case that you have cut down. This could mean a great difference in pressures.

 

[C.R.Sam]

What Majic said.
Caution when using altered cases..
Wise to determine volume.

Sam

 

[Atticus]

Good advice...thanks. I can think of a couple of ways to determine volume using water, but do you have a recommended "kitchen sink" method that is both simple and accurate?

 

[Tamara]

Georgia Arms loads factory .460 Rowland.

Make sure that your 625 is a "-4" or later, with the endurance package, lest your cylinder spin the wrong way.

 

[Majic]

Zero scale with cartridge on it. Carefully add water without spilling till case is full. Resulting weight can be used as a case volume in grains of water. This is not scientific, but useful in determining how much powder a case can hold compared to another case.
If you ever run across the book Handloading (a NRA publication) by Wm C. Davis Jr. it lists the water volume of a lot of cartridges. It's worth getting in that it explains a formula to determine pressure of cartidges. Though it is old and uses just a few rifle powders it gives you a starting point.

 

[Majic]

Zero scale with cartridge on it. Carefully add water without spilling till case is full. Resulting weight can be used as a case volume in grains of water. This is not scientific, but useful in determining how much powder a case can hold compared to another case.
If you ever run across the book Handloading (a NRA publication) by Wm C. Davis Jr. it lists the water volume of a lot of cartridges. It's worth getting in that it explains a formula to determine pressure of cartidges. Though it is old and uses just a few rifle powders it gives you a starting point.

 

[Atticus]

Tamara: "....with the endurance package."

Do all models after 625-3 include the endurance package?

Thanks for the info Majic.

 

[Tamara]

Atticus,

Do all models after 625-3 include the endurance package?

Far as I can tell. Recently had .45 ACP guns in -2, -3, and -4 persuasions in my possession; the -2 was easy to tell apart from the two later ones as it had the short cylinder stop notches.