Isn't it difficult to have setback with lead bullets?

[Shivahasagun]

Because the bullet it usually larger diameter?

For example, I barely bell the mouths of .45 acp cases, and often get a tiny shave when seating the bullet. The bullet is .452 in dia, larger than the nominal .451 jacketed bullet. Seating the bullet expands the case. Then the bell is rolled away and the brass pushed against the bullet.

Wouldn't it take alot more force to push the bullet further into the case than a smaller diameter jacketed one?

 

[Bfh_auto]

Because the bullet it usually larger diameter?

For example, I barely bell the mouths of .45 acp cases, and often get a tiny shave when seating the bullet. The bullet is .452 in dia, larger than the nominal .451 jacketed bullet. Seating the bullet expands the case. Then the bell is rolled away and the brass pushed against the bullet.

Wouldn't it take alot more force to push the bullet further into the case than a smaller diameter jacketed one?

You have to consider the hardness of the bullet. A jacketed bullet is difficult to swage down. Lead ones will swage down under seating pressure if the case is sized too much.
Lead is also lubed while jacketed aren't.
In bullets with a crimp groove and a strong roll crimp. I would consider it equal. In a semi auto I have no idea. I don't have setback issues with either.

 

[__steve__]

In my limited experience, 0.501” bullets for both jacketed and cast, the jacketed I need to bell 0.004”, the cast needs 0.006” over to avoid shaving.
But the cast has less surface tension and goes in easier

 

[Blue68f100]

Depends on the brass wall thickness, hardness, how thick the walls are, bullet hardness and how it's sized. If your shaving lead when seating you need to expand the mouth a little more to prevent this.

 

[Cacas ex Fortuna]

When working with lead, belling the cases is a must, and .002 over the throat size is always good.
Two of my 45/760s use .450 lead pills, where the other shoots better with a .459 diameter.
Casting your chamber so you know what size you are dealing with is the first thing you should do.

 

[Varminterror]

Lead will slip into a case way, way easier on a bad feed than will a jacketed bullet.

 

[Reinz]

Composition makes no difference, especially in a 1911. The bullet hits resistance Twice before even entering the chamber.

First, the bullet nose hits the ramp, then it hits the hood/top of the barrel, Then it enters the chamber straight. Thus, bullet diameter is moot.

 

[Shivahasagun]

Composition makes no difference, especially in a 1911. The bullet hits resistance Twice before even entering the chamber.

First, the bullet nose hits the ramp, then it hits the hood/top of the barrel, Then it enters the chamber straight. Thus, bullet diameter is moot.

So you're saying the .452 (or larger) lead bullet doesn't have to widen the brass to get knocked deeper into the case?

But it widens the brass when its seated by the press. Seems like alot of resistance to overcome.

 

[Reinz]

So you're saying the .452 (or larger) lead bullet doesn't have to widen the brass to get knocked deeper into the case?

But it widens the brass when its seated by the press. Seems like alot of resistance to overcome.

No, I’m not saying that.

In my experience, bullet setback was caused from a weak crimp/lack of proper neck tension.

With the crimp not being tight enough to overcome the force of the feed ramp when the nose hits it; then when the nose hits against the barrel hood/top of the chamber impacting further force trying to push that bullet back into the case.

And then , yes, maybe you are correct in that a bullet diameter too large for the chamber may cause further pressure forcing the bullet back.

I almost blew up a very expensive race gun 30 years ago with a reload. Since then, I make sure that my bullets can not be pushed back into the case by pressing the nose of the round firmly against the edge of my bench.

I don’t buy the “ just remove the bell with your crimp and you’re good to go”. Maybe that’s good for once or twice fired brass. But when you load as many times as possible till the brass splits, maybe neck tension is weakened. Thus, why I test my rounds as a final test after the chamber checker.

A few weeks ago I had a factory round setback and almost blew up a Wilson Combat. So I guess now I need to bench test my factory Ammo before loading mags.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Lead will slip into a case way, way easier on a bad feed than will a jacketed bullet.

That’s good to know for sure. Why is that? The lube I presume? What about coated?

 

[CQB45ACP]

No, I’m not saying that.

In my experience, bullet setback was caused from a weak crimp/lack of proper neck tension.

With the crimp not being tight enough to overcome the force of the feed ramp when the nose hits it; then when the nose hits against the barrel hood/top of the chamber impacting further force trying to push that bullet back into the case.

And then , yes, maybe you are correct in that a bullet diameter too large for the chamber may cause further pressure forcing the bullet back.

I almost blew up a very expensive race gun 30 years ago with a reload. Since then, I make sure that my bullets can not be pushed back into the case by pressing the nose of the round firmly against the edge of my bench.

I don’t buy the “ just remove the bell with your crimp and you’re good to go”. Maybe that’s good for once or twice fired brass. But when you load as many times as possible till the brass splits, maybe neck tension is weakened. Thus, why I test my rounds as a final test after the chamber checker.

A few weeks ago I had a factory round setback and almost blew up a Wilson Combat. So I guess now I need to bench test my factory Ammo before loading mags.

By my recollection of most comments on THR, you’re definitely an outlier around here with your crimp removal view.

I’m not arguing for or against just saying that’s not what others say. Nor the Lee second edition as I recall (just for example).

I do the “bench push” too with my 45ACP loads—not each but a sampling—and have never had movement. Do you have many/any?

 

[Reinz]

By my recollection of most comments on THR, you’re definitely an outlier around here with your crimp removal view.
?

???

Not sure what you think my view is.

Is your view to use just enough crimp to remove the bell? That’s what I don’t agree with after almost destroying of couple of 5K guns. That tends to change your attitude and methods real quick.

As far as bullet movement with the bench push, I rarely have it, because I probably crimp tighter than the average bear.

 

[CQB45ACP]

???

Not sure what you think my view is.

Is your view to use just enough crimp to remove the bell? That’s what I don’t agree with after almost destroying of couple of 5K guns. That tends to change your attitude and methods real quick.

As far as bullet movement with the bench push, I rarely have it, because I probably crimp tighter than the average bear.

Yes I believe most here would be in the just remove the bell camp. I’m not criticizing doing one or the other, just saying what I recall from seeing discussions here.

I have expensive 1911s too.

 

[Shivahasagun]

I like to crimp as much as I can without creating an issue from over-crimping. (Pistol ammo)

 

[Slamfire]

With Keith type bullets where the crimp is rolled into a groove, it is probably hard to push the bullet back. Shoot enough 9mm and 45 ACP and you will see a lot of push back regardless of the bullet type.

 

[Bazoo]

Add me to the “I give it a little more than just remove the bell” clan. I don’t crimp the doody out of taper crimp rounds either though.

 

[AJC1]

With rimmed brass that I can roll crimp I've never had movement. Which auto brass I've had low tension felt while seating I just set aside for disassembly. My system is not numeric, it's just how I feel about bullet seating. I don't count on a taper crimp for any holding power.

 

[ballman6711]

I taper crimp pretty hard for my coated 45acp rounds. Not to prevent setback, but so they will chamber in my gun.

Doe's it help prevent setback, maybe, maybe not. I think neck tension is more important on rounds that taper crimp.

chris

 

[CQB45ACP]

With Keith type bullets where the crimp is rolled into a groove, it is probably hard to push the bullet back. Shoot enough 9mm and 45 ACP and you will see a lot of push back regardless of the bullet type.

Don’t know what “enough” 9mm or 45ACP is but in my life (I’m 70) I’ve shot a lot of both and have experienced ONE and that was a manufactured round (probably Remington but can’t really say). One.

Oh great, now I’ve jinxed myself.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I like to crimp as much as I can without creating an issue from over-crimping. (Pistol ammo)

Love that. I like to crimp as little as I can without creating issues from under crimping. (Unfortunately, issues are only recognized when they’ve become issues.)

 

[Y-T71]

Case tension is a big deal when it comes to your bullet not getting pushed deeper in the case

I'm using Dillon dies In my SD.

If you look at where the bullet base ends up in the brass, you can see how much "case "neck" tension" there is; no chance of a setback (lighting might not be the best but, trust me, it's noticeable under proper lighting)

Lots of people don't like the way these look but, believe me, these bullets are not going to move backwards (into the case)

These are .45's




And 9mm

 

[Charlie98]

Depends on the brass wall thickness, hardness, how thick the walls are, bullet hardness and how it's sized.

A jacketed bullet is difficult to swage down. Lead ones will swage down under seating pressure if the case is sized too much.

+1

Just this past week, I loaded a small lot (32) of .45 Colt brass I had laying around... 3 different headstamps (Starline, RP, WW.) I could tell from the effort required to size the brass (not necessarily a positive indicator because of different loads previous...) and to seat the bullets, there was a definite difference. My .45 Colt loads get a hefty roll crimp, but they are going into a single-shot... not a revolver or automatic. I consider .45 Colt brass to be a crap-shoot on what you'll get, not so much other cartridges... but brass is brass, and there will be differences.

 

[deadeye dick]

As far as neck tension is concerned, for .45ACP I can usually feel the neck tension when seating the bullet. If it feels loose i will bench push it to be sure. The same goes for loose primer pockets, but those i don't test ( big smile).

 

[Y-T71]

As far as neck tension is concerned, for .45ACP I can usually feel the neck tension when seating the bullet. If it feels loose i will bench push it to be sure. The same goes for loose primer pockets, but those i don't test ( big smile).

Yeah, bench "push" testing should automatically be a part of your process.

If you take your time it still only takes 10 seconds.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Yeah, bench "push" testing should automatically be a part of your process.

If you take your time it still only takes 10 seconds.

How hard do you push?