It Keeps Getting Worse in California.More "Loopholes" Need to be Closed

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Duke Junior

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We discussed carrying without a permit in CA a few days ago.
Now another "loophole" needs to be closed.Sheriff Baca returns again.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-legis20-2008aug20,0,2138414.story

Among the bills is one that would close a loophole on carrying loaded firearms in unincorporated areas. Another would fine bandit cab operators $5,000 and disconnect their phones.
By Patrick McGreevy, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
August 20, 2008
SACRAMENTO -- State lawmakers took action on various scourges of Southern California life Tuesday, including gun violence, traffic congestion and bandit taxicabs.

With less than two weeks left to act on legislation, the state Senate sent dozens of bills to the governor, including a measure sought by Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca to outlaw the carrying of loaded firearms in vehicles in unincorporated areas of the county.


"I think all of us are aware of the dangers of a loaded firearm in a vehicle," said state Sen. Jack Scott (D-Altadena), who wrote SB 1171 at Baca's request.

Scott noted that loaded guns in vehicles within city limits are already illegal.

"This will simply close that loophole," Scott said.


The Senate also approved an amended bill supported by Los Angeles officials to deal with the proliferation of bandit taxicabs, which have been known to operate without safety inspections, insurance and proper driver certification.

"They are a tremendous danger to many of our urban areas," said state Sen. Leland Yee (D-San Francisco), the author of SB 1519.

The legislation would allow cities to fine bandit taxi operators up to $5,000 and disconnect their telephone service when other sanctions do not work.

The legislation was supported by several permitted taxicab companies that have lost business to the bandit cabs.

"Scofflaws may ignore local taxicab licenses and regulations, but when their phone lines go down, they'll lose their main source of business," Yee said.

Los Angeles officials have estimated that there are about 2,000 bandit taxi drivers operating in the city. Last year the city launched a crackdown that resulted in more than 650 arrests.

The Senate also acted to provide some relief to drivers in Riverside County on Tuesday by approving legislation that would give the county's transportation commission power to develop and operate toll lanes on the 91 Freeway.

Express lanes exist on the 91 in Orange County, but they end at the Riverside County line. The transportation commission would like to extend the existing facilities from the county line to Interstate 15, panel officials said.

The legislation, SB 1316 by Sen. Louis Correa (D-Santa Ana), was opposed by the Environmental Defense Fund. The group complained that the bill does not guarantee the use of toll revenue for mass transit.

Southern California hikers also got some help Tuesday when the Senate approved a bill that allows the owners of land in Elsmere Canyon to seek inclusion of that property within the boundaries of the Rim of the Valley Trail Corridor.

That would set the stage for the Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy to spruce up the area. Work could include improvements to the fire road that crosses the canyon and serves as a link to a system of trails circling the San Fernando Valley, according to Joe Edmiston, director of the conservancy.

"The canyon is currently a doughnut hole in the middle of the corridor, and SB 1180 will close that hole," said state Sen. George Runner (R-Lancaster), who carried the bill on behalf of the city of Santa Clarita.

patrick.mcgreevy @latimes.com
 
The current law already prohibits carrying loaded firearms in vehicles in "a prohibited area of an unincorporated territory." This "loophole" can be "closed" simply by having the county define prohibited areas. There's nothing about the law that prevents LA County from doing this.

What this proposed law would do is make hunters in remote areas, far from Los Angeles, into unwitting criminals, by messing with Fish and Game laws as if they applied to gangbangers in the city.

Even if you accept that loaded firearms in vehicles in town should be illegal, this law makes no sense. Most of California's land area is rural or remote; it's a clear case of a big city sheriff and legislator changing the laws that are meant to apply to rural residents, to criminalize common rural practices that don't hurt anyone.
 
we have a 2 year old stomped and beated to death in an apparently unincorporated area, so lets close the loophole that allows loaded guns in cars in unincorporated areas.

freaking brilliant idea baca, freaking brilliant.
 
"I think all of us are aware of the dangers of a loaded firearm in a vehicle," said state Sen. Jack Scott (D-Altadena), who wrote SB 1171 at Baca's request.

As many years as I've been carrying loaded guns in vehicles, I've never had a problem.

The legislation would allow cities to fine bandit taxi operators up to $5,000 and disconnect their telephone service when other sanctions do not work.

The legislation was supported by several permitted taxicab companies that have lost business to the bandit cabs.

We don't need no stinkin' competition!
 
My loaded Firearm in my Vehicle has never jumped of the passenger seat and opened fire on anything. if I could change my birth state legally from Cal to Utah I would. $#%^@
 
"This will simply close that loophole," Scott said.
Why is it, than anything that isnt illegal, is always a "loophole" to lawmakers?
Does it not occur to them that the people who wrote the original law intentionally didnt make something illegal because there is no reason too?

I say, we need to close the loophole that allows lawmakers to close loopholes.....

:banghead:
 
Write to your CA senators and demand that they explain to you why it is that the state feels the need to become involved locally when there are already avenues of effective local control. Just ask the question. See what happens.

They won't answer it, of course, but maybe if we start demanding that they justify their existence, they'll start to get the hint that we're paying attention.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong here.....

It is my understanding that currently, we may carry loaded long guns (no rounds in the chamber) in our vehicles in remote unincorporated areas and handguns must be unloaded. This is my practice while up in the mountains hunting. I've had Fish & Game folks confirm this is their view also.

Is this correct? and this law I assume will put an end to this practice?
 
I realize that we are 50 separate states, but wow, California should join the European Union. Their style of governing is more in line with them.

I worry about Darfur and California.
 
They won't answer it, of course, but maybe if we start demanding that they justify their existence, they'll start to get the hint that we're paying attention.

ROTFLMAO

Yeah, whatever. You're in [strike]hell on earth[/strike] San Jose. All your neighbors will blindly vote for the Democrat, whatever he/she does. Your voice means absolutely NOTHING to your legislator, no matter what party you belong to; they've got their seat in the bag due to jerrymandering.

It means NOTHING.

And they LIKE to wield state power when local control could work fine. Gives them something to do, and some "accomplishment" to tell the idiot gray-haired hippies who volunteer for their campaigns about when they go back home.

They already know that a few of you gun-owning "crazy right-wing reactionaries" are paying attention. They'll give a **** when hell freezes over, or maybe the day after.
 
ArmedBear - you may (nay, are probably) right, but dammit, I was BORN here, and some of the people that supposedly represent me came from somewhere else! It at least gives me some measure of comfort that I'm doing the right thing even if nobody else will.

I believe, seriously, in the truth. Not what people want to think is real, but what is demonstrably real. So I'll point out where legislator's have suffered from rectal-cranial inversions even if it will fall on mostly deaf ears because I care.

So whatever. I happen to know that in the SF Bay Area there are enough gun owners to change any given vote, but the problem is that they are mostly unconnected to the political scene and what's going on in it.

*sigh*
 
This law will have no effect whatsoever.

PC 12031 states:

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

(f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

Now consider we have PC 374c which makes shooting from any public road illegal. This triggers 12031(f). So currently under CA law, right now, you cannot have a loaded firearm on any public road.

This new law only does one thing. It shows that the law-makers don't even understand the laws currently on the books.

Read this flyer, particularly page 2 for this topic.
 
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It is my understanding that currently, we may carry loaded long guns (no rounds in the chamber) in our vehicles in remote unincorporated areas and handguns must be unloaded. This is my practice while up in the mountains hunting. I've had Fish & Game folks confirm this is their view also.

Is this correct? and this law I assume will put an end to this practice?

First, there is no distinction between handguns and long guns when it comes to loaded. Concealed is a different matter (PC 12025). Loaded is PC 12031. Basically, you can't load anywhere where you can't shoot, which includes public roads. Fire roads out in the BLM or NF are sometimes public (county roads) but quite often are not.

What is loaded:

12031 (g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm. **​

** In “People v. Clark” (1996), the California Court of Appeal clarified that in order to be “loaded” a firearm must have ammunition “placed into a position from which it can be fired”. It even went so far as to point out as an example of what is not loaded to include shells attached to a shotgun inside a buttstock shell carrier.

** There is a common misconception that merely possessing both a firearm and ammunition in close proximity legally equates to loaded. This mistake stems from several PC sections that do not apply to the law-abiding gun owner. 12001(j) only applies to 12023 (carry with intent to commit a felony). 12021.5 only applies to street gang crimes as defined in 186.22. 12022.2 only applies to armor piercing ammunition. 12025(b)(6)(A) is a sentence enhancement which only applies if one violates 12025 (carrying concealed). 171e only applies inside the State Capitol, legislative offices, or office or residence of the Governor.​

It's all in the flyer: http://www.californiaopencarry.org/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf

Edit to add: gbran, regarding a round in the chamber in your vehicle - there is also a State Fish and Game code that does not allow a round in the chamber when in a vehicle when you are hunting. That code refers to rifles and shotguns and does not refer to nor apply to handguns.
 
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Great job mudcamper.

Maybe it is a multi-layered system to ensure crimes with guns are not committed. Band aid government, like on a child, only makes people think it is all better. It doesn't matter how many band aids you put on top of each other, they only divert attention from the real problem, which is not the second amendment. (Stepping down from my soap box)
 
And then there's that big loophole, the United States Constitution. I'm sure the republican governor of California would like to close that loophole, too, if he could.
 
i agree with mudcamper this law makes no sense except the fact that they do not understand the laws themselves
 
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