It looks like Winchester/Miroku may offer a reprodcution 1866 Winchester

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This Shot Show auction item has been up on Gunbroker.com for over a week now.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=531725298

According to the listing copy the current manufacturers of Winchester products are adding the model 1866--commonly known as the "Yellow Boy" rifle, to their historic rifle line. 2016 would be the 150th anniversary of its introduction, so that fits in.

It's only up to about $15 grand, so be sure and get your bid in now--:what:

What always intrigues me is--who are these people who are willing to bid such high amounts for the Shot Show auction items? I know that the proceeds go to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, but still, do they at least get a charity tax write off for such things?

Cheers
 
Interesting. My understanding is the originals had a lot of problems, hence the '73 and '92. But I don't really know details.
 
Good for Miroku/Winchester. The '73s have gotten good reviews. Lots of people really like the brass receiver of the '66 so I'm sure there will be a market for this as there is for Uberti's repro.

The 1866, like the Henry rifle that preceded it, was chambered only for the .44 Henry rimfire cartridge which was pretty anemic. Of course the ammo has been out of production for many years so a reproduction Henry or '66 in its authentic chambering would be a wall hanger.
 
If they drop that ************* *********** ********* *********** crescent buttplate & do a 20-incher, I'll stand in line for a production version. :)
Denis
 
This will be introduced in 44-40 cal. In fact they mention that Winchester ammunition is going to have some special anniversary marked ammunition or ammunition boxes available. Olin still makes the ammunition line though--while they just license the name to the Herstal Group which also controls Browning and FN.

I can't see a real big market for this since Uberti has been making these for many years now--especially--if like their 1873's they will be about 25 to 35% higher at release.

I have two of the Miroku made 1873's--a short rifle and a sporting rifle. They are nice and all, but also owning an original in shooting condition, I'm here to tell you that pound for pound the Uberti is a far more accurate reproduction of an original 1873 than the Miroku is. Miroku made too many minor alterations to the original design that serve absolutely no real purpose in my opinion. The devil is in the details as they say. While I am a Winchester fan, I doubt I will ever bother trying to get one of these because of this.


Cheers
 
It wouldn't be an authentic repro in certain areas, but I could go for the steel & workmanship over the Uberti.
Denis
 
This will be introduced in 44-40 cal. In fact they mention that Winchester ammunition is going to have some special anniversary marked ammunition or ammunition boxes available. Olin still makes the ammunition line though--while they just license the name to the Herstal Group which also controls Browning and FN.

I can't see a real big market for this since Uberti has been making these for many years now--especially--if like their 1873's they will be about 25 to 35% higher at release.

I have two of the Miroku made 1873's--a short rifle and a sporting rifle. They are nice and all, but also owning an original in shooting condition, I'm here to tell you that pound for pound the Uberti is a far more accurate reproduction of an original 1873 than the Miroku is. Miroku made too many minor alterations to the original design that serve absolutely no real purpose in my opinion. The devil is in the details as they say. While I am a Winchester fan, I doubt I will ever bother trying to get one of these because of this.
Cheers

I would be interested to know what "minor alterations" Miroku made to the 1873 design. I know they made the rear of the bolt different as they installed a safety mechanism that the originals (as well as Ubertis) do not have.
 
I would be interested to know what "minor alterations" Miroku made to the 1873 design. I know they made the rear of the bolt different as they installed a safety mechanism that the originals (as well as Ubertis) do not have.

This is going to be long, but here goes.

They introduced the round barreled short rifle first, which I bought in early 2014. Since this was a less common version of the 1873, I had nothing to compare it to. I had an original and 2 Uberti's at the time, but all had the longer octagon sporting rifle barrels.

The first thing that bothered me though--was the type font that they used for all the barrel and receiver stampings. Instead of the period correct 18th century style they use a blocky sans serif modern style which just didn't look right. Uberti chose to use a period correct font style for their rifles and it simply looks more authentic--even if it doesn't say Winchester and made in Italy instead of Japan.

Next was the Rube Goldberg lawyer safety built into the receiver and the firing pin extension. What they did was to replace what was a single piece of steel with nine components including a ugly lug drilled through the top of the receiver. Of course an original and the Uberti's have none of this.

Here's what it looks like. You can barely see part of the lug peeking out from under the rear of the dust cover. The extension is now hollow with an internal pin, cam lever, and coil spring all held in by two press fit pins.
recievershot_zps1154e0c4.jpg

It didn't bother me at first, but then it caused an issue that I thought was going to require me to have to return it for repair.


While cleaning it after a shooting session, my rag caught the little cam tab sticking up out of the longitudinal slot in the firing pin extension. It levered the cam up to an unnatural vertical position, which unseated the internal coil
spring. This in effect jammed the entire action. I could not close the bolt. Before sending it back to the service center, I decided to see if I could fix the issue myself. It took me the better part of a frustrating evening to figure
out. Re-seating the internal coil spring required using micro tools and a hobby magnifying lamp which fortunately I had. I have since replaced the firing pin extensions on both rifles with an after market drop in solid steel replacement that returns the part to the original configuration. The lug and its retaining screw are still in the receiver, but removing them would leave a gaping hole. The rifles still have a half cock and the lever trigger block safeties which have been good enough for 140 years now.

Lastly was an issue I have with the sporting rifle, which I got at the end of 2014. It is a beautiful rifle, but of course it also came with the two issues mentioned above with the short rifle. I could do nothing about the modern font stamping, but like the short rifle I also replaced the overly complex firing pin extension.
forpost_zps9afcd3aa.jpg

However, now I had a rifle that was the exact same model as my 1891 original and two of my Uberti's for a better comparison. I spotted the 3rd non authentic problem when I removed it from the box. It was the octagon barrel. For some unknown reason, Miroku chose to give it an extreme taper from breech to muzzle that no original nor any of the Uberti's have ever had.

Here's a shot of my original next to the Miroku sporting rifle. You can see that the Miroku barrel is so tapered that there is an observable gap between it and the magazine at the muzzle. Because of this they had to put a much taller front sight and a much longer magazine hanger. Why they chose to do this, I have no clue.
barrelcomparison_zps60931eef.gif

Putting the three rifles on a scale revealed that the original and the Uberti weighed within a half ounce of each other at about 8 lbs. while the Miroku was a full 1/2 pound lighter. Besides minor internal geometric changes, I have to believe that most of that reduction in weight is due the over tapered barrel.

You may think that I am being overly picky, but when I pay over $1500 for what is supposed to be an accurate reproduction of one of the most famous guns in history stamped with the name of the original maker, I don't want useless alterations that affect both function and looks.

As I mentioned, there are enough minor internal geometric variations that it would be impossible to fake one of Japanese rifles as an original, so the listed external alterations were simply unnecessary IMHO.

I stewed on this for a while and then finally called the US office asking for the correct email address to voice my concerns. The lady I talked to gave me one and assured me that somebody would respond. I wrote a polite but firm letter detailing my disappointments. I didn't think I was going to accomplish much, but still wanted a reply of some sort.

All I ever got back was a catalog.

In their ad copy, the company that now makes Winchesters states. "Why have a copy of a copy when you can own the real thing?" What does that even mean other than total marketing B.S.
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The Uberti and the Miroku are both fine rifles and the Miroku will still edge out the Uberti in fit and finish, but not by that much. However, other than being marked as made in Italy and using European Walnut rather than American, the Uberti is a reasonable and mostly authentic copy of an original Winchester while the Miroku having been pointlessly altered and modernized is much less so.

Sorry to go on so long, but I wanted thoroughly to back up my statement that in my opinion---pound for pound the Uberti is a more accurate reproduction of a 19th century 1873 Winchester than the Miroku is.

Cheers

P.S. I have already have a beautiful mint Uberti 1866 sporting rifle that I acquired locally for only $800, so based on my past experience, I'm pretty sure I will pass on the new Miroku offering.
 
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Thanks for the information --- and for the photographs.
I have a recently made Miroku version of the 1892, a
"deluxe limited edition takedown" in .32-20. It has the 24" octagonal barrel. It has a tiny space between the barrel & mag -- but being a takedown, I'm not sure that wasn't intentional as well as present on originals. I'll have to check.
On my '92 there are differences. The firing pin is made differently with a internal spring and I note there seems to be a "collar" around it that isn't present on originals. Also, a tang safety (low key and it is well designed, not intrusive like on the cheaper Rossis) and the rebound hammer, unlike originals with half-cock safety. I still like this rifle very much and while I would prefer the original design IMHO it's a minor greivance (YMMV).
I have a Uberti made Winchester 1873 saddlering carbine made circa 1990. I notice some minor differences between this one and modern made Uberti '73s. The modern ones (carbine version) have the front sight on the barrel/magazine ring while mine is attached behind the ring directly to the barrel. However, both are accurate in a way as early '73s had the front sight on the ring. Also, mine has a "step" or rebate in the receiver just in front of the elevator port and behind the barrel. Modern ones are flat -- but again, both are accurate as Winchester made them both ways.
It's been said the 1873 has existed in four major variations (that do not include things like musket, rifle, carbine types). Most are distinguished by recognizable differences in how the dust cover is shaped, or attached. But there are so many minor differences that they may not all have been classified by experts .... yet.
Again, thanks for the information on the Miroku product!
 
Pretty cool! I just wish they'd do a .44Spl or .44Colt. At least then it'd be closer to the original chambering. The .44-40 is better than the seemingly-generic .45Colt though.


What always intrigues me is--who are these people who are willing to bid such high amounts for the Shot Show auction items? I know that the proceeds go to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, but still, do they at least get a charity tax write off for such things?
Well, it's not just a SHOW Show rifle. It has upgraded wood, it is hand engraved and it's marked "ONE OF ONE". It's a pretty special rifle in its own right but I'm sure a good bit of that bid has to do with benefiting the NSSF.
 
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