Italian WWII Arms

[Nightcrawler]

I've been going all over the internet trying to dig up info on the various Italian small arms used in the Second World War. It's been frustrating at best;

I've found some info on the Beretta 38A submachine gun. Apparently it came in two calibers, 9mm Luger and another 9mm cartridge. There were several variations (plane barrel, fluted barrel, jacketed barrel) and it had two triggers, one for semi and one for full auto.

I haven't been able to find hardly anything on the Breda M30 light machine gun, and M37 heavy machine gun.

Equally troublesome is finding stuff on the Italian rifles of the war. Cacarno or something like that? What calibers were they issued in?

Oh, and what pistol did Italy use? Was it the Beretta 1934?

Thanks.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I recommend WHB Smith or Smith and Smith (depending on the edition), Small Arms of the World.

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I haven't been able to find hardly anything on the Breda M30 light machine gun, and M37 heavy machine gun.
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The Breda 30 was 6.5X54mm (Carcano) caliber, delayed blowback, weighed 22.75 lbs, and fed from a non-detatchable 20 round magazine that was filled with chargers.

The Breda Model 87 was a heavy machinegun, chambered for the 8mm Model 35 cartridge, and was gas-operated, belt fed. It weighed 42.8 lbs, and the tripod weighed another 41.5 lbs.

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Equally troublesome is finding stuff on the Italian rifles of the war. Cacarno or something like that? What calibers were they issued in?
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The basic rifle was the Carcano, in many different variants beginning in 1891. The early versions were in caliber 6.5mm Carcano, and later (in 1938) 7.35mm.

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Oh, and what pistol did Italy use? Was it the Beretta 1934?
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The Italians used a mixture of pistols -- the Beretta M1934, in .380 ACP (9mm Kurz) was widely issued, but earlier pistols like the M1910 9mm Glisenti, the Model 1915 Baretta (in both .32 ACP (7.65mm) and 9mm Glisenti) and the model 1923 in 9mm Glisenti were also issued.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The Breda Model 30 -

Was actually an upgrade of the Model 24. The odd thing about this one is it had a side mounted magazine that loaded with stripper clips like the Carcano rifle used. It also dropped the spade grips/thumb trigger of the Model 24 and replaced it with a shoulder stock and pistol grip. It also incorporated a bipod instead of a tripod.

The standard medium machinegun used in WWII was the Breda Model 37 in 8mm. Yet another "invovation" of the Italian small arms industry was the unique feeding system used in the Model 37. They used a re-usable metal strip to feed the cartridges into the chamber. Ofter being fired, the mechanism inserted the empty brass back into the strip on the opposite side.

Some other machineguns used in WWII were the old WWI Fiat-Revelli Model 14 machinegun in 6.5mm, the Breda RM Model 31 in 13.2mm, the Scotti Model 28 in 7.7mm and the Riat-Revelli Model 35 in 8mm.

 

[Madmax]

Italian guns of WWII are the best. Thay have only been fired once and dropped once.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Almost as good as French weapons -- they weren't fired at all.

 

[Jim K]

The Beretta M38 SMG was made only for the 9mm Parabellum. The confusion comes in because the Italians earlier (1910) had issued the Glisenti pistol which also chambered for the 9mm P, but was not a strong gun. So ammunition was made for the Glisenti which was considerably lower powered than the standard 9mm P. Standard German ammo or Italian SMG ammo will take the poor old Glisenti apart in short order. The Italian army did not consider this a problem since the Glisenti was long obsolete by the time they issued ammo for the Beretta SMG, but some Glisentis in this country have been wrecked with the hotter ammo. I suspect this is the actual origin of stories about "special SMG ammo" that blows up pistols.

I will note one thing, though. That Italian 7.7 ammo for the heavy machinegun is dimensionally identical to the .303 British, but it is very hot and will definitely rattle the teeth of an old SMLE. It is headstamped "SMI" and should NOT be fired in a Rifle No. 1. It is marginal in the Rifle No.4, but is OK in a P-14 or a Ross.

Jim

 

[Roadkill]

http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/

rk

 

[Johnny Guest]

Sidearms - -

Like many other countries, the Italians used whatever was handy when regular stocks ran short. Also, many civil police, security personnel, plant guards, and so forth, did not need to be armed with first-line handguns - - The sidearm was a badge of office as much as a fighting tool.

Standard army pistol was the 1934 Beretta in 9 mm Corto ("short"-- same as .380 ACP.) For some reason, the Italian Navy adopted the same pistol in 7.65 Browning (.32 ACP) as the model 1935. Say what one will about Italian military armaments in general, the 1934/35 pistols were well made, very sturdy, and fairly accurate. Drawbacks were that they were pretty heavy for the power level and had an awkward safety. It had to be rotated a full 180 degrees, and was set too far forward for a person with small-to-medium size hands to operate one handed. I have large hands and can barely manage the safety.

One final problem was that by a combination of handle-to-bore angle, back strap shape and width, there was a lot of perceived recoil, even with the heavy weight-to-power ratio.

All the above notwithstanding, the '34 pistol is one of the simplest, most reliable small to medium size service handguns. If the fairly sturdy magazine is fed anything llike decent ammo, the pistols will usually run like a top.

Best,
Johnny