It's 2023 and you see a mysterious new PDW in the display case... interested?

[Snowdog]

I'm a sucker for new gadgets, interesting concepts and so forth. I like new shiny things. What I carry is boring (Gen4 G19) but it makes me happy. I see a lot of potential for future PDWs, however. Especially if the ATF refrains from going after pistol braces.

Would there be any interest in a top-fed (ala FN P90) braced PDW in .30 Carbine or, in a smaller version, in a slender, non-tapered and non-rimmed cartridge, such as the .30 Super Carry? The slightly tapered 9mm may work as well. I know higher capacity 9mm magazines often take a curve to accommodate this, some don't (Glock 33 round mags, for example). However, I would want to transcend 30 rounds and venture to towards 50 rounds... even if for "just because".

I was looking at Keltec's P50 and the aftermarket folding stocks offered by those such as A3 Tactical and wondered... why aren't more offering PDWs with this style magazine orientation (ala FN P90 and Keltec P50)?

Would it catch your eye if you were to see a new PDW in the display case with a barrel somewhere around 7" to 10", folding pistol "brace" and a (unfortunately proprietary initially) flush-to-frame high-capacity magazine reminiscent of the P90 but in .30 carbine?

How about an even smaller (shorter, narrower) and lighter PWD with a 4" to 6" barrel in .30 Super Carry?

I am well aware there are existing products on the market that will serve the same purpose....
Did you know in Soviet Russia, those that were privileged enough to own a car sometimes only had a Lada as a choice? It would get them from point A to B, but perhaps they wanted a hunter-green '68 Mustang Fastback instead. Variety is a good thing, heck... it's the spice of life (Cowper was a wise man).

My dream HD firearm (though I have a plethora of firearms that many would claim are ideal for home defense) would be:

-Short overall length
-Light in weight (I have no issues with a reinforced polymer receiver with metal wear points)
-High capacity
-Fairly low recoil
-Of an acceptably effective cartridge (.30 carbine in this case)
-A braced stock (collapsible preferred but folding is fine)
-Ergonomic for most... maybe take some pointers from Beretta's excellent CX4 Storm
-Picatinny rails for optics, but not all over the darn thing as to turn it into a flesh-abrading cactus
-An integral light or the option of upgrading to one
-High capacity
-High capacity
-A threaded muzzle
-High capacity
-Under $1k minus optics

This upgraded P50 below (not mine) is going in that direction, but it's not quite there.

Image lifted off Google.


In the meantime, I keep a Gen4 G22 in a MCK 2.0 with gen3 charging handle (the polymer charger failed, long story) with a 20 round mag in the G22 and 15 rounder in the forward holder, Holosun HC510C-GR and integral (yet quite dim) led light for the role.

I also have a PSA AK-V with identical optics, Beretta CX4 Storm in 9mm (same optic), Black Aces Mini 10, various AR braced pistols in 5.56 and .300 BLK and many other compact PDWs. I like spice. Still, I can still see a niche for such a PDW. Hopefully it's not just me.

 

[Remington1911]

I would not look twice at it.

 

[Buzznrose]

I’d probably pass, but then again, I’m usually late to the party and miss a lot of interesting new stuff when it comes out.

 

[starling]

Not my thing. Most of this new stuff I see is cheaply built with an emphasis on tactical cosmetics to mask it. A semi auto version of the Beretta 93R would be interesting but some laws would have to change with pistol stocks and vertical front grips for that to be profitable for Beretta. Most of this new tactical PDW stuff for me is similar to toy nerf guns. Some have clever internal designs but they are so goofy looking that a Cobray Mac11 or Tec9 looks streamlined. Kelgren has neat ideas and I like seeing what he comes up with but he sure doesnt have a sense for style. Whomever approved the Sprinfield Hellion bullpup needs a new set of glasses as well.

Nothing wrong with a gen 4 glock. Fine pistols just as tools lousy ergos for me. Keltecs have become more range toys than anything else lately. I am a big fan of the P11 design but thats where it kind of ended for me with Keltec.

 

[Mk-211]

Here's your new 9mm.

https://freedomordnance.com/fm-9/

If that's not enough firepower for you.

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...t-fed-upper-receiver-full-auto-prod86794.aspx

 

[Remington1911]

This one is more my style.

 

[DeepSouth]

I’d look long enough to see it wasn’t chambered in 45 acp, then I’d move on.

 

[doubleh]

That thing is just butt ugly like a lot of the newer guns and it seems the makers are going out of their way to make them that way. For example the lever and pump guns that are dressed in plastic and are all sharp corners everywhere. Guns used to have good lines and be nice to look at. Now most are made as cheaply as possible and looks be damned. Now I will retreat to my corner and shut up as I am not into the ugly, shoot forever on one loading, monstrosities many of the makers are putting on the market.

 

[hso]

I wouldn't be interested in 30 carbine, but a 9 or 38 super might be interesting.

I'd want slender and compact in caliber compatibility with what I already have or I might as well go with the existing 5.7 guns.

 

[buck460XVR]

There is just so much wrong with the gun in the posted picture, IMHO, to make it the so called ultimate "PDW". All those sharp edges and protrusions at all six edges, would mean constantly getting hung up on something in close quarters. Bet it catches the eyes of the tacticools tho...........

 

[Barbaroja]

To each their own but I wouldn’t buy one with someone else’s money.

 

[reddog81]

No interest.
You want a light weight gun and then saddle it with a gigantic magazine and 2 lbs of ammo?

 

[kje54]

Watched the Honest Outlaw test one a while back. He had fun with it. For me, it's not even on my maybe, kinda sorta list...........

 

[starling]

I could go for an AMT Automag II (22wmr) in 30 Super if they would bring it back and not stick rails and optics mounts on it. Those were great when they ran and you used the right Lube. 30 Super might be the perfect cartridge for it. Nice flat, comfortable, well balanced pistol with a 6" barrel.

PDW??? Maybe a semi Auto mid size UZI or Mac 11. Something with a little more classic style. Invictus Arms makes a new version of the Tube Gun (Intratec Tec 9) thats interesting but it runs on Glock magazines and is kinda big and.....Meh.

If someone ever brings back the Goncz and it is reliable/well built I will buy one. Those are kind of forgotten though.

All kinds of great firearms out there that never really took off for different reasons but had potential. 94 AWB really did a number on some great stuff. Some really interesting smaller manufacturers couldnt withstand it and we lost out. Its a Big reason I always support smaller US gun makers. Kind of nice when you have a technical question and you can actually talk to the owner of the company of designer of the firearm on the phone. They also tend to be a lot more laid back about parts support and backing up their products if necessary. I have become a fan of FMK in the last year after someone here gave me some info on the FMK 9c1 that was helpful (thank you again if you read this). Since then I have talked to the designer and really dialed the pistols in to become one of my favorites.... and I am more of a Beretta 92 style design fan.

Keltec are good people though. I just can get on board with any of there new offerings. P11 was a very durable and well designed DAO pocket size 9mm. Most of what I see them put out now is kinda fragile and finicky along with being hard on the eyes. Maybe Kelgren could put out a somewhat normal pump action 357 or 44 carbine like the old Timberwolf. Try to keep the tactical to a minimum and just make a nice light, handy, and durable 16" carbine. If 30 super stays around I could see George working it into the PMR pistols somehow. I have a feeling Kelgren has a lot more ideas than he has manufacturing capability though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claridge_Hi-Tec/Goncz_Pistol

 

[entropy]

I'm thinking a bottom helical feed 9mm based on the AK- the Bizon, but semiauto.

 

[CapnMac]

Too much of the question depends on one's perception of what a PDW is/ought be.

If it's meant to be holstered, that pretty much requires some form of folding stock, with all of the compromises that entails. (E.g. Skorpion style)
If it ought have a shorter, fixed stock, that's a whole different kettle of fish, too. (E.g. P90 or M-1 Carbine style)

Once the form is defined, that informs how/where the magazine fits.

Jury is still out on 30sc, whether that round will be useful/better in a carbine-length barrel, or at 100 or 150 meters is an open question.

Would I shoot an MP5 in 30sc? Probably. Buy one? Probably not.

So, the answer, for me, is "dunno."

 

[starling]

Too much of the question depends on one's perception of what a PDW is/ought be.

If it's meant to be holstered, that pretty much requires some form of folding stock, with all of the compromises that entails. (E.g. Skorpion style)
If it ought have a shorter, fixed stock, that's a whole different kettle of fish, too. (E.g. P90 or M-1 Carbine style)

Once the form is defined, that informs how/where the magazine fits.

Jury is still out on 30sc, whether that round will be useful/better in a carbine-length barrel, or at 100 or 150 meters is an open question.

Would I shoot an MP5 in 30sc? Probably. Buy one? Probably not.

So, the answer, for me, is "dunno."

And thats why 30sc will likely end up in the dust bin of history. I dont like to see cartridges or firearms fail but the rollout has been pretty much a dud. The really needed something like a mini scaled down 1911 or something unique to draw people in. I guess 7.62x25 is my 30ish super carry.

Might be neat in a really small rifle for hunting (and plinking). A Keystone Cricket or Savage Rascal in 30sc would be interesting. I would probably buy one just to play with the cartridge a bit. $150 or so and you might have a fantastic little mini rifle for small to medium size game.

 

[commygun]

These days, if said PDW is chambered in anything other than 9mm or .45 ACP, you’re effectively marketing it to just reloaders. The tactical bros aren’t going to buy it.

 

[The Night Rider]

Nope

 

[Riomouse911]

sounds a bit like Calico.

https://calicofirearms.com/products/firearms/

Stay safe.

 

[tarosean]

errrrrrrrrr doesn't the P90 already answer that?

 

[Archie]

No.

 

[dogtown tom]

And thats why 30sc will likely end up in the dust bin of history. I dont like to see cartridges or firearms fail but the rollout has been pretty much a dud...

I agree. If ammunition pricing and availability were not an issue I would have bought a .357 Sig a decade ago, same with 5.7 and several other boutique cartridges. But sadly, if it ain't 9x19 it isn't going to be cheap to run, have widespread availability and have dozens and dozens of ammunition manufacturers churning out several varieties.

I have high hopes that PSA's Rock means PSA's sister company AAC will be making plenty of 5.7 with the price point of steel case 9x19.......THAT'S what will resue that caliber from imminent death.

 

[CapnMac]

errrrrrrrrr doesn't the P90 already answer that?

I'm guessing OP was thinking of a more "accessible" than 5.7x28
Which probably fueled the .30carbine notion as a similar dimension sort of round.

And, there is a tease there of an intermediate intermediate sort of cartridge--something around 25-30mm long that can be gotten to, oh, 50-70% of rifle performance. And, we, "in the community," mindful of the blizzard of cartridges present now or in history, and reflexively wonder "why another?" It's in our nature.

The PDW form factor can tease the mind, too. I have some time with "holsterable" versions, and I never really cottoned to any of them. They were not very good pistols, and even less good carbines for having wobbly and short stocks o questionable utility. The rigid "armpit" style was always better to me--but, you were dealing with a from factor in the SMG sort of size. And the only possible advantage was in having a "better than" pistol round. But, that just invited comparisons to shorty carbines in actual rifle cartridges.

So, the best "for cooks, clerks, and bakers" other than the M-1 30 carbine has been the P90--and yet, both wind up with people second guessing the ammo.

 

[Chicken-Farmer]

KelTec comes up with some “interesting” concepts but recoil management is not in their vocabulary. Every keltec that I’ve shot from pistol,rifle, and shotgun have been uncomfortable to shoot.