It's over, we've lost

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"mainstream American culture"

There's a real oxymoron.

Meanwhile, I'm stuck with a Shadowgrass camo parka and waders (they didn't come in just plain old brown.) I guess if I ever get drafted for homeland defense I'm going to be assigned guard duty in some marsh.

John
 
If I'm not mistaken, this clinic is an RWVA shooting clinic. They use Army pattern qualification targets for sight in and qualification. Whats more, an integral part of the philosophy of the group is the idea that armed citizens should be able to fight against oppressive powers.

Its clear that the range restrictions are totally opposed to the character of the RWVA organization and I see no good reason at all for them to try to appease the range. I see a lot of people talking about conspiracies in this thread...

The only conspiracy I see is the one against common sense and gumption perpetuated by the range.
 
I wounder if they would have the balls to tell my department to get off the range, since the Sheriffs Department is a paramilitary organization.:evil:
 
Dress Blues?

They seem to have a problem with "militaristic" or "paramilitary" looking outfits -- in a group setting.

It might be interesting to get into some dress blues or tans (or even whites), polish up the shoes, line up that belt buckle, and march smartly up to the line.

Especially in groups of four or five.

I mean, show a little solidarity for our troops.

And have your oval and/or cicular targets arranged . . . for optimum meaningful shot placement.
 
I would run in that range with camo worn and a silhouette in one hand screaming "PARAMILITARY FORCE, AMBUSH THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!":evil: :D :evil: :D
 
Just think it is ILEAGAL in MA to even shoot a human shaped target.

Even on the PD range we had to use a target shaped like a milk bottle. :what:

Glad I voted with my feet to NH.
 
The perception that any individual is representative of (or an ambassador for) any particular group they may resemble, is one of the greatest social challenges to liberty that our nation faces. In an enlightened world, an individual at large would never be judged to represent anyone but himself.

The urge to lump people together this way is destructive, lazy thinking.

I could not agree more with the above statement.

However (comma) we live in the real world.

If you're a jackass, and you belong to a high profile group, people at
large *DO* in fact associate your actions with that particular group.

It's just the way it is. Human nature and all that.

Deal with it.
 
It's not in Colorado, it's in Grant's Pass Oregon.
And we have to go because 30+ people have signed up
But I gaurantee we aren't ever going back.

Unbelievable.
If these are our friends, who needs Barbara Boxer?:scrutiny:
 
In all seriousness, I fail to see how this is a huge problem.

Are they telling you what to do outside of their range?

Are they telling you what kind of guns you can't practice with at the range?

Depending on their definition of "military training", they might not be impacting your training in any notable way whatsoever, except in terms of enforcing what is essentially a dress code.


I'm not quite sure what kind of "military training" you can do on a static range anyway, unless they are actually banning CMP/Highpower events (which I agree would be foolish).

Unless you somehow planned to do fire-team assaults of the berm, I'd guess that most specific "military" type training isn't feasible on a static range anyway.


The whole thing is just a "dress code" to keep the place comfy for the non-apocalyptic shooters, and to keep the range from becoming another expose piece for whatever local news hack just C-'ed his way out of Communications school.

-MV
 
The rules seem a little ignorant however...

My range has some similar rules.
Single loads only! That means no more than 1 round in your mag
No silouette targets-only paper bullseye targets
etc,etc

The reason being that we do not want to give the antis any ammo to scream for our closing down.
 
My take is they are trying to avopid a situation like this, Make note of the bold type:

Metacon Wins Preliminary Rounds in Federal and State
Courts
October 20, 2005
In two recent court victories, both the U.S. District Court in Connecticut and the Connecticut Superior Court
declined to impose what would have been burdensome measures upon the Metacon Gun Club in the operation of its
outdoor shooting range. The measures that the range opponents sought to impose on Metacon in the pending litigation
included: forcing the club to manage the site as if it were a hazardous waste generator subject to the regulatory
requirements of the federal hazardous waste regulations; forcing Metacon to fully enclose its outdoor range, thus
turning it into an enormous indoor range, and; forcing Metacon to extensively investigate and remediate any pollutants
even though the range is still operating. All of the measures requested by the range opponents were rejected by the
courts.
First, Judge Arterton of the U.S. District Court in New Haven made clear that operating ranges are not required to
manage spent ammunition as hazardous waste under the federal hazardous waste regulations. The court held that firing
a bullet at a target is not the abandonment of a hazardous material or the generation of a hazardous waste. The court
made clear that spent ammunition at operating outdoor shooting ranges does not need to be managed under the
complex and burdensome federal hazardous waste regulations. This is a significant ruling for sportsmen and ranges
around the country.
Next, Judge Sheedy, of the Connecticut Superior Court’s Complex Litigation Docket in Waterbury, held that it
is inappropriate to order either the enclosure of the Metacon range or remediation of the operating range as requested
by the range opponents. The range opponents have raised an array of alleged issues in their two state lawsuits,
including: safety, noise, zoning, property devaluation, and the environment.
In the hearing on their request for
preliminary injunctive relief, however, they presented evidence only of alleged harm to the environment. The court
held that the range opponents failed to establish a substantial probability of environmental harm from Metacon’s
outdoor range.
While these two legal victories are significant, Metacon's legal battle has just begun. These victories relate to
preliminary legal questions raised by the range opponents, only. They do not resolve the ultimate factual or legal
questions that are before the federal and state courts in the three lawsuits now pending.
In the coming months, the range opponents’ lawsuits will raise important questions under Connecticut’s Range
Protection Act, ultimately testing, for the first time, the protections afforded to ranges by that statute. How the court
chooses to interpret the Range Protection Act will affect every outdoor range in Connecticut. The federal court,
on the other hand, will have to determine whether individuals shooting into a berm are point sources requiring federal
discharge permits under the Clean Water Act. The resolution of this issue under the Clean Water Act, as well as
the outstanding hazardous waste issues in the pending litigation, will affect outdoor ranges nationwide.
To date, Metacon has been fighting this battle alone with little outside support. Special assessments on members
have been required to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for Metacon's legal defense. The NRA Civil Rights
Defense Fund has also provided critical financial support. But all of this is not enough for the protracted legal battle
being waged against Metacon.
Your support for Metacon's legal defense will help defend all outdoor shooting ranges in Connecticut and
across the Nation for years to come.
Metacon’s future is your future.
Find out how you can support Metacon by visiting http://www.metacongunclub.com
or contacting: Michael Palmer, Treasurer at (860)658-0061.
 
You can wear anything you want, anywhere, anytime.

Just not there. If you don't like it, vote with your wallet.


I've got lots of camo. Mossy Oak, RealTree, Natural Gear. I wear it when I'm hunting for doves, deer, ducks, or turkey. I put it on when I go hunting. It's functional. Sometimes after I'm finished hunting, I just wear it home from wherever I'm coming from. It doesn't embarass me in any way to be seen in it.
I don't see any need to wear it to the rifle, pistol, or skeet range though. The targets aren't going to run away.

However, I'm not in the military, so I don't have a need to play dress up. I do not see camo as a fashion (or other) statement.
 
Hmmm, is this gun range anything like an internet gun forum whose moderators and members constantly worry about what the antis might read and think of us? I know, we can really win the antis over by beating our guns into plow shares and let those leftist elitists rule over us. Do any of you think that there is anything you can do that will change Rosie Odonnel's mind?
 
Lawdog, is your waaaambulance available?

I protest: there is an awful lot of low road noise here that either contributes nothing or contributes negatively.

I get to shoot at the Josephine County Sportsman Park, the big deal shooting facility in the Grant's Pass area, several times a year when visiting the best friend. By my experience, there is only a one in three or so chance that there will be any JCSA supervision on the firing line. Silhouette targets and from-the-holster drills have been fairly common on my visits. If things have changed there, I suspect the changes are reactive: some one has caused problems, likely more than a few some ones.
 
worry about what the antis might read and think of us?

Look at is this way, the UT Austin campus gun range gets up to a dozen first-time shooters on a good night (and another dozen regulars. Mix of kids from mainstream non-shooting families in various Texas cities, and a good scattering of foreign-exchange students from every corner of the globe.

Do you think they would end up with a better or worse image of shooting if all our regulars were:
a) white
b) male
c) wearing unwashed camo and "KILL 'EM ALL" t-shirts?
d) shooting at targets depicting UN soldiers


Instead of:
a) Everything (whites in the minority, in fact)
b) 30% female
c) wearing the usual college kid clothes: flip-flop sandals, goofy t-shirts, sagging pants
d) shooting bullseye targets


The "Plan B" there is working pretty well for us. Or should we stop being a disgrace to the Liberty Tree and try out "Plan A"?

-MV
 
Think of it this way. If history deems GW Bush's presidency a failure it will be due to his lack of backbone and his "new tone" politics. He has bent over backwards trying to make the left like him. Where has it gotten him? They hate him even more for it. An abusive and bullying person loses even more respect for a person who won't stand up for themselves. While I agree that there is a time and place for everything (camo or whatever), we can't forget that what is right is right and trying to win over antis by pandering to them doesn't work. Keep doing what you are doing and report back to me when Rosie O is on our side. I'm not going to pass on my full second amendment rights because I'm worried about what an anti might think of me.
 
win over antis by pandering to them

I really fail to see how shooting AR-15s, competing in IDPA matches, running cross country (a very, very often overlooked skill among the Black Helicopter set, if my eyes gauge right), and wearing normal clothes while doing so is "pandering".


So not living up to all the antis' propaganda, fear-mongering, and class/race-baiting is somehow pandering?

I wasn't aware that wearing camouflage to the Piggly Wiggly endowed me with some magical uber-patriot-militia abilities.

Well, I've said my piece, I'll just watch this one from here on out.

-MV
 
no matter what you wear it should be safe

Flip flops? at the range? when that hot brass hits the noob
she/he will AD into the kid on the left.

saggy droopy pants?:barf: I would rather shoot next to a camo wannabe the a gang banger wannabe any ole day

shooting at targets depicting UN soldiers
oooh,where can I get those!? they sound way cool!

if the politically correct crowd that sometimes shoots at the ranges in SF can get along with the camo wearing binladen target shooting wannabe rednecks
then the rest of the country can.

Name The Range Brian!
 
huh

I wear camo to the range all the time.
I wear the exact same suit of camo to the range all the time.
This is because my flecktarn's got lots of pockets, fits me to a T, keeps hot brass from going down my shirt, and blocks out the wind nicely (here in california's san fernando valley we have been having winds that rip the targets right off frames and swing all the rifle round spinners).

i don't wash them very often (about once every four or five trips). I wear them ONLY to go shooting, and then put them back up when i come home. rain slides right off the goretex liner, and even the worst CLP+powder sprays don't hurt the fabric any.

to be honest, i'd say that i look more ridiculous than threatening, especially when i'm trying out a new gun with 60 year old ammo - i wear a british riot helmet with full face shield! folks laugh, but after they've had a pierced primer or two they ask me if they can borrow it.

if my range came up with these rules, i'd tell them that i'm a "re-enactor" and point out that i'd hate to have to drive all the way to that OTHER range....

anyway, here's proof... :neener:
 

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